Yours truly will update this post shortly with his reaction to the speech. Let’s just say I was pleased it didn’t excessively venture into La La Land territory, which is nice. Plus, many parts of it were surprisingly candid and straight forward.
Anyways, me will be back with more.
Meanwhile, you can dive in and drop your reaction. Good thing Mr. President mentioned Darfur once.
UPDATE: Been crazy busy, but had time to drop a quick comment here. If you’re curious about where Obama got some of his ideas for the speech especially in regards to which Quranic veses to use, then find out here. Meanwhile, me is keeping track of the situation in Iran.
Virtually all my Iranian friends (at least those who are not apathetic and who voted, the majority), are pretty pissed off at what happened, and rightly so. If one word can describe their fight both online and offline at protests, then it’s this.
Inspiring.
According to them, this time it’s different, and unlike any unrest before since the revolution took place. So, let’s see what happens, and how Obama will respond.
Here’s to hoping that filthy bitch called Ahmadinejad gets kicked out. While the lovely Mullahs and supreme leader will remain, it will still be a positive outcome.
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 48 comments… read them below or add one }
He referred to Israeli “occupation” and Palestinian “resistance.” Pretty impressive. Looking forward to hearing your thoughts!
Just one more guy referring to terrorism, if the victims are Jews, as “resistance”. Not very impressive. I have seen better anti-Semites.
I would have hoped that the first African-American President would maybe keep the focus on Africa where hundreds of thousands have been murdered by the allies of the people Obama calls the “resistance” (they “resist” Jews and black Africans). George Bush started focusing US policy on Africa with his peace deals in Liberia and Sudan and his increase in aid to African countries. But Obama so far failed to continue his predecessors policy.
He also failed to help Pakistan, who need large amounts of aid to rebuild what the Taliban and the fighting the Taliban started destroyed. Will there be a huge conference where countries pledge money to Pakistan like they did for Gaza? I doubt it.
I keep wondering whether Obama would call it “resistance” if some terrorist killed his daughters because they are black, now that we know that such an act is “resistance” if the daughters are Jewish.
Glad I didn’t vote for him…just the same old tired Leftist lines.
Howie,
I am actually less fond of the journalists praising Obama than of Obama himself. At least he had the courage to make it clear to a CNN reporter interviewing him that Israel is not Nazi Germany. The media believe it, Obama does not.
But the constant underlying anti-Semitism is annoying. Why can terrorists not be called “terrorists”? Why does it have to be the politically correct “resistance” when the victims are Jews?
I wrote this article about that problem:
http://citizenleauki.joeuser.com/article/355454/If_I_Owned_a_News_Paper_or_Television_Network
Guys…
I have another question for y’all and it is not rhetorical…
Liberals support many Muslim extremist groups. Fine…however look at typical liberal values:
Women’s rights
Universal sufferage
Religous choice including atheism
Government accountability
Freedom of press
Freedom of expression
Sexual freedom
Homosexual rights
Minimal censorship
Civil rights
Anti-torture
Now…how many of these values would you assoicate with Islamic extremism or even the less religious groups they support such as Fatah?
Yet…these are pretty typical values and freedoms one finds with the great occupier…Israel. Of course it is imperfect…but way ahead of most of the dudes the Left so honors…
Can y’all splain that tah me?
That reminds me of something I wrote in the comments section of another blog a few days ago, answering the question “Are you a zionist?”:
I support freedom and independence for all minorities in the Middle East including the Imazighen, the Fur and the other African tribes in Sudan, the Kurds, the Assyrians, and the Jews. I am a Phoenicianist and a Pharaonist.
I suport equal rights for Arabs and Jews and Assyrians and everybody else, women, homosexuals, Christians, and Yezidis.
I support gay pride parades in holy cities, I support democracy and freedom of speech and religion.
I support a Jewish state in Israel, an Aramaic state in Syria, Berber states in northern Africa and Arab states in Arabia.
I oppose the death penalty and the mistreatment of foreign workers.
I believe that whites and blacks have the same value, that black Africans are not merely potential slaves and that white Arabs are not automatic masters.
So, yes, in other words, I am a Zionist.
I am everything white supremacists, Arab nationalists, slave holders, and Islamic fundamentalists hate. And I am proud of it.
I am extremely disappointed that Mr Obama did not focus more on Darfur. The Sudanese government is really getting a pass for genocide in the name of improved relations between Islam and an America that many Muslims allege is fighting a war against Islam.
I think Mr Obama should have made it clear that if “Islam” (i.e. Arab governments) decide to fight a war against Christians and (Muslim) black Africans and against Kurds and Assyrians and Jews and everyone else who is not a Muslim Arab, there WILL be a war, which will only end, well, when it ends.
Even if the Arab-Israeli conflict ends, either by the Arabs giving up murdering the Jews or by the Jews no longer defending themselves, the greater problems won’t be solved. Hundreds of thousands will still die in Darfur. The death of six million Jews would save the lives of a few hundred innocent Palestinian Arabs, but it wouldn’t prevent the continued murder of tens of thousands of innocent Africans.
I don’t understand something…why does the United States have to kiss up to Muslims? Why? What have Muslim nations, overall, done for the United States. Most have sided with our non-allies over the years…Russian, China. Many have celebrated when we were hurt and the nut cases have killed Americans. I have not forgotten 9-11 nor the many in the Muslim world who thought it was a pretty cool idea…including many Palestinians…I have not forgotten that.
I have no problem with trying to resolve problems and make peace…but I don’t see too many similar speeches from the other side. I don’t see how the USA “owes” the Muslim world a thing. Should we still be apologizing to Iran for 1952? Hey…get over it guys and maybe we can start working out some of the mayhem you have caused and/or supported since your grand revolution. We have allowed 10’s of thousands of you to immigrate to our country. Anaheim is starting to look like Gaza, Castroville has the largest Afgan population outside of Afganistan I think, we just elected a Muslim Senator, Dearborn Mich. looks like Sidon. Our Jewish citizens cannot even set foot in many of your countries. Our universities are filled with your students…some were some of the downright nastiest and most arrogant people I have ever met in my entire life. And you call us arrogant?
You accuse us of siding with Israel? Well…why shouldn’t we. You have sided with folks like Hitler, Communist Russia and now China (all, by the way, far less the Muslim lovers that the USA is)…
You let’s see YOUR outreach…let’s hear YOUR apologies.
I think Obama’s speech should have been much more along the lines of…”hey dudes, we have screwed up and YOU have screwed up. The world is not clearly good guys and bad guys. It will take a long time to build some trust. We will reach out to you, but that has to work both ways”
I quit calling me a black president. I am HALF-BLACK
I still think it would be funny if Condi Rice became the next President.
Obama, being half-white, would then not be the first black President any more but the last white President.
Muahahahahaha.
Drima,
You know Obama would never venture into La La Land territory.
I liked the speech. As far as his oratory skills are concerned, Obama is the number one. Besides this, the idealism and naivety of this president are almost scary. I also think he got his historical dates wrong. Al-Andalus was over before the Inquisition.
Nobody,
I have heard him speak freely without teleprompter or prepared speech. He is not such a great orator.
The Al-Andalus/Inquisition issue likely won’t matter. Many of Obama’s typical audience seem to perceive history backwards anyway.
Andrew Brehm, that is very narrow minded. Obama is not an anti-semite. His chief of staff and longtime friend is Jewish. Furthermore, Semitic people encompasses more than just Jewish people. It does include the the very same Palestinians and Arab people Israeli is at war with.
So focus on creating peace instead of slinging these petty derogatives.
Rabbit,
I didn’t say Obama was an anti-Semite. (And I don’t care if his best friend is Jewish. I also don’t care if the word anti-Semitism can be refedefined by going back to what “Semite” means.)
Israel is not “at war” with anyone. It’s the Arabs who are at war with Israel. That’s why Israel is expected to give land for peace. If Israel was the aggressor and the Arabs wanted peace, wouldn’t the Arabs offer land for peace?
How do I focus on creating peace by saying that Obama has Jewish friends? It’s impossible. I wouldn’t be doing anything.
First step of creating peace is acknowledging the situation.
Want to know what I did for peace? I went to Iraq and had a look at how other victims of Arab attacks dealt with the situation:
http://web.mac.com/ajbrehm/Home/Blog/Entries/2008/10/9_Erbil.html
http://web.mac.com/ajbrehm/Home/Blog/Entries/2008/11/2_Sulaimaniya_-_Part_1.html
A Kurdish lieutenant told me that I was the first Jew in the region since the 1930s (he was wrong). He also told me not to tell anyone that I was Jewish further south when I crossed the border between Iraqi Kurdistan an the Arab part.
If Arabs travelled to Israel like I travelled to Iraq we would be a lot closer to peace, don’t you think?
Now why doesn’t that happen?
I thought the speech was pretty good.
For a christian he spoke pretty islamic.
Suzanne,
He only quoted a few things from the Koran and besides,he was speaking to the Islamic world. It’s kind of impossible to talk to those people and not speak pretty islamic, especially considering the state the the world is in and how the Islamic world play a part in it. I think he’s a good Christian for doing what he did.
Gertosob,
If he was being such a good Christian, why did he ignore the Christians in his speech?
Andrew,
His message wasn’t geared towards Christians, but he did mention his Christian faith and also quoted from the Holy Bible.
I come to this site ocassionally and you’re one interesting fellow; you seem nice tho.
Gertosob,
But I do think middle-eastern Christians feel a bit forgotten. Israel doesn’t care about them. The Muslims don’t care about them. They have always relied on western support or at least a cultural connection to the west. And both the last and this US administration seem to focus solely on Muslims.
And thanks.
I think he ignored the Christians because he was nuzzeling up to the Muslims and didn’t want to touch too hard on sore spots. I don’t like Obama…but I don’t think that speech was the place to start smacking Muslims around about all the dirt under their carpets. It was more of a “I am bringing a new era in relationships”.
So forget democracy, personal freedoms, abuse of woman and minorities, forget torture, abusive legal systems. Keep your governments in power, send oil, don’t bomb our towers and we will be a bit meaner to Israel and will say warm and glowing things to you and we will talk out all our problems and the world will be a better place.
Fine fine… some good will come of it I guess… and bad will also come of it…it is a big old crowded and complicated world out there. And a lot of people want a lot of very different and very conflicting things…
Good luck Barak
And he is the first HALF-BLACK American president…the first half-white one also.
A much better speech…by my #1 hero!!
http://www.rr.com/news/politics/article/1110/8020058/Wright_says_Jews_keeping_him_from_Obama
But what if happens what ALWAYS happens when one encourages the bad guys?
What if the “Muslims” take Obama’s words as permission to (continue to) oppress Christians and attack Jews?
What if the “Muslims” take Obama’s words as permission to (continue to) oppress Christians and attack Jews?
You mean these words?
“America will align our policies with those who pursue peace”
“Palestinians must abandon violence. Resistance through violence and killing is wrong and does not succeed.”
“It’s a story with a simple truth: that violence is a dead end. It is a sign of neither courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That is not how moral authority is claimed; that is how it is surrendered.”
“America’s strong bonds with Israel are well known. This bond is unbreakable.”
“Threatening Israel with destruction - or repeating vile stereotypes about Jews - is deeply wrong”
Yes, I mean those words.
The more often they are said, the more clear it becomes they are just words. When did America ever act upon them?
If the President had said that he won’t hold a speech in Egypt because Egyptians “threaten Israel with destruction and repeat vile stereotypes about Jews”, I would have applauded him.
But what’s the point of asking people not to do something and then ask them again if they continue to do it? At some point they will learn that what you say doesn’t mean anything.
I do like this part:
“It’s a story with a simple truth: that violence is a dead end. It is a sign of neither courage nor power to shoot rockets at sleeping children, or to blow up old women on a bus. That is not how moral authority is claimed; that is how it is surrendered.”
However, I don’t believe that anybody believed it.
However, I don’t believe that anybody believed it.
Whether or not anyone believed it I don’t see any possible way it could be interpreted as “permission to attack Jews”.
“Whether or not anyone believed it I don’t see any possible way it could be interpreted as “permission to attack Jews”.”
Neither do I. I just expect that it will be taken as such.
Anyway, more interesting now is the situation in Iran where a charismatic presidential candidate apparently brings about change:
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2009/06/iran-on-fire.php
Hey Drima, nice to see the old Zionist gang is alive and well
Just came by to say hi, looks like everything is pretty much the same around here… it’s still the same old:
Israel is the lovely peacemaker, It’s army is literally a Defense Force that has never ever preemptively attacked any country, Bloody Arabs don’t want peace, The Palestinians are not originally from Palestine but the immigrant-settlers (Israelis) are and if the Palestinians don’t like it they can move to the east of river Jordan or ask their Arab brothers to take them in, “Jerusalem what? this is a done deal we’re not even talking about it: ISRAEL ONLY”, the only ruthless killers are those bloody Muslims and ANYONE WHO DARES CHALLENGE ANYTHING ISRAEL DOES IS AN ANTISEMITIC.
What a thought provocative blog
Amru, if you are so desperate to see a big war, try western Sudan.
@Gertosob, his speech was too islamic for a christian. Not necessarily because he did not really address the Christian issue in muslim countries, or because he pointed at a Quran story - but because he talked about the Holy Quran (while a non-muslim not really says Holy in front of Quran) and he used the term PBUT - also very muslim-like.
I mean, if he is a muslim - so be it. I dont care, but as a christian it is a very odd thing to do and I believe with that kind of attitude - even meant well towards the muslim community - he stabbed on the christians in the islamic world who often do not have an easy time there.
It’s like a Jew giving a speech towards christians and ends the speech with “Praise Jesus, our Lord”. It just does not make any sense.
Why is showing some respect for one religion automatically taken by many as an insult to the others?
@Zoxuf, the way he expressed himself was more than respect - it was submission. And by submitting to someone else’s religion you neglect the rights of your own fellow - in this case - christians.
Don’t you think your overreacting a little? It is obvious from the context of the speech that he was trying to bring the religions closer together, and not to promote one over the others.
The Holy Koran tells us, “O mankind! We have created you male and a female; and we have made you into nations and tribes so that you may know one another.”
The Talmud tells us: “The whole of the Torah is for the purpose of promoting peace.”
The Holy Bible tells us, “Blessed are the peacemakers, for they shall be called sons of God.”
The people of the world can live together in peace. We know that is God’s vision. Now, that must be our work here on Earth. Thank you. And may God’s peace be upon you.
Do you really find this passage insulting? Even as an atheist I find it rather beautiful.
Z…
You make a good point and I pretty much agree with you. I don’t like Obama much and did not vote for him and would not vote for him. But I think he is going with a pretty classic Leftist philosophy…some would argue it is placating and pandering…others would see something conspiratorial and sinister…like he is a closet Al Quiada or something.
I think he is just doing the old Rodney King “can’t we all just get along” thing. Trying to be Universalist, respectful etc. This is, perhaps, his beginning approach.
The kicker is will be later be able to call a SOB and SOB when the time comes. Will he criticize the Muslim world for a whole lot of very bad stuff they do…most of which would go against his basic Leftist value system? Will he sell-out the minorities, including Christians in the Muslim world and close his eyes to other abuses; lack of freedom, mistreatment women, dictatorship, genocide, torture, no free press, abuse of foreign workers and shall I go on? Will he put his foot down when the time comes? That is more of a concern to me. Right now I think he is trying set a less confrontational tone. The rest…well let’s wait and see…He did criticize Iran yesterday for
http://www.boston.com/bigpicture/2009/06/irans_disputed_election.html
Well…I guess you could call that human right’s abuse???
I wish people would like less along ideological lines and look at people and leaders more based on a case-by-case situation until they really prove themselves to be bad.
Obama…let’s see what our HALF-BLACK and first HALF-WHITE president will do.
He tried to be so careful with his words and to please about everyone at the same time that something like this just gets my attention. I continue to find it odd that he - as a christian - used muslim-phrases. I don’t blame him for that, but I would understand of coptic christians in Egypt might feel neglected and don’t know what to think of this new president of the USA now he spoke like a muslim in Cairo.
@Zoxuf, no, not those phrases. I already pointed out to you which ones ‘disturbed’ me.
Hey guys, sorry been unpredictably crazy busy lately, and I’ve gotta say I’m surprised by many of your comments.
Sure Obama’s speech wasn’t perfect, but for him to confront a Muslim audience and ask it to own up to things like Holocaust denial, stereotypes about Jews, and to stop denying or justifying 9/11… that? well, that was pretty unexpected and good. No “La La Land, can’t we all just get along” type of stuff. He also owed up to mistakes the US has made.
So, really, sure he sugarcoated lots of stuff, and while some may call it pandering (it ventured pretty close there), I would call it trying to take a very different tone… for now, to see if it will change things.
Overall, I gotta say, I mostly agree with Zoxuf.
@Drima as long as the Mullahs remain in charge, nothing much will change. Remember that under Mousavis rule in the 80s Hezbollah and the nuclear program was set up.
@Suzanne
@Zoxuf, no, not those phrases. I already pointed out to you which ones ‘disturbed’ me.
The passage I quoted includes the “Holy Koran” and “peace be upon you” bits that you mentioned.
@Howie
Will he criticize the Muslim world for a whole lot of very bad stuff they do…most of which would go against his basic Leftist value system?
He did advocate for many of those values in his speech. But you are right there will be times when serious criticism of some Muslim nations is needed. That criticism will be much more effective if a foundation of mutual respect is built first. I think the speech was a good first step in that direction.
@Zoxuf, yes you are correct, but those were not the ones i meant
he mentioned “holy” and “pbut” before.
Z…
I agree with both you and Drima and, again, I am not an Obama fan.
I have long ago learned that if you want somebody to change their behavior…unless you are going to beat them down…it is best to “enjoin” them…Kind of a like “dude…your kid is smart, alert and can show a great sense of humor…fun to be around, however…”
This is better than….this kid is a prick blah blah. I have many bad feelings towards the Muslim world…more specifically the Arab world…but I cannot write off a whole people…I think Obama’s approach is fundamentally correct…but I want to see what kind of goodwill comes from the other side. When was the last time a significant Arab leader stood before the world and said “hey…we have issues with you dudes…but we have also done some really dumbass shit to bring at least part of this on our own heads”
I can’t remember it ever happening…so…”your turn”
Maybe you guys need a half-Jewish have Muslim leader to the ball rolling…Half-Israeli …half-Balestinian?
AH….never mind
Howie,
Did that method ever work on the international scale?
“and how Obama will respond”
My guess it that he will try his best to ignore the situation. He doesn’t seem to be the type who easily recognises history that happens without his help.
Well, the christian outrage on Obama’s speech is - so far i can tell - zero and i don’t want to be the one who wakes up sleeping dogs unnecessarily
so ill shut my mouth about it.
Andrew…
Did that method ever work on the international scale?
Andrew…I don’t know…but even leaders are humans…with sensitivities and egos blah blah…I don’t know history well enough to answer that.
Once again…I am NOT an Obama fan…I am just trying to look at this fairly an objectively. I just happen to kind of agree with Z and Drima on this one…i.e. he is trying to set a different mood. Is he a closest Hamas or something who never let go of his Muslim roots? Or is he still a believer in that nutty preacher of his? The latter be a possibility…the former a joke..I don’t know…I don’t know what he is REALLY up to…
I just think the approach makes sense…but no I don’t know who Obama is yet and what he is “really” up to…other than he is a pretty classic liberal and still might not realize how the typical Muslim government and society shares none of his treasured Liberal values…
“Well, the christian outrage on Obama’s speech is - so far i can tell - zero”
http://www.michaeltotten.com/archives/2009/06/advice-for-bara.php
Guys, you’re forgetting one rather important snippet, which he did mention, and which received applause.
He stood in Al-Azhar University, Egypt’s most ancient Islamic learning center, and essentially told Egypt to stop discriminating against the Copts.
That was probably the most important thing he could have said about Christians in his entire speech, and he said it.
Of course, in order to feed his audience a few ‘difficult-to-swallow’ pills, such as this one, he needed to pander to them with a ’salam’ here and a ‘peace be upon them’ there - so what? He got his audience to listen to his ideas. “Respect religious freedom in Egypt”, he said. And that, personally, impressed me.
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