Editor’s Note: The following is a guest-post by my friend, Omar, who is someone I consider to be a very talented writer. While there are some disagreements in regards to certain details, I pretty much strongly agree with his core argument. Although, I’d be careful not to descend into nihilism.
Almost every day, I hear people uttering a phrase that I can’t help but grit my teeth to: “Everything Happens for a Reason.”
We use it to console ourselves when something goes wrong. Almost like an automatic cooling mechanism that kicks in on an overheating nuclear reactor.
We use it to philosophize our life’s circumstances. And in many cases, it’s the only thing left for us to hold on to (or so we think).
But - regardless of whether you believe in the concept of religion - could this yearning for a higher purpose to everything we do be nothing more than a comfortable illusion?
First of all, let’s identify which definition of ‘reason’ we’re referring to.
If you define reason through a simple cause-and-effect model (such as if you work hard, you’ll reap the results), then everyone can pretty much agree that everything does without a doubt happen for a reason.
The other model, however, is the one I have problems with:
The belief that everything that happens is just a small puzzle piece of a higher power’s master plan.
i.e. if you get in an accident and lose your leg, it’s actually because god planned this for you, and he wants you to learn something from it.
I ask you this question in a tone as inoffensive as I can muster: Don’t you think the latter model is just a tad presumptuous and self indulgent for us as mere mortals to hold on to?
If there is a god out there, I find it hard to believe that he’d micro manage the destiny of every single person, animal and inanimate object on the planet.
It’s easier to believe that he just made us, and put us on autopilot, leaving us to figure things out for ourselves.
In fact, it makes a lot more sense.
If you lose your leg in an accident, it could be because you were careless. Or because another driver was careless. Or because your car malfunctioned.
It could be all of these things, or it could be none of these things. Billions of tiny, seemingly insignificant variables work in unison to determine our fate.
Even something as small as leaving your house 5 minutes late because you forgot your keys could snowball into a monumental occasion, like meeting the love or your life, or yes, losing your leg in an accident.
The question is, why do so many of us invariably end up attributing these variables to the machinations of a higher power?
By our very nature, we struggle to find meaning and purpose in everything, often where there is none.
This may be an extreme example, but some of us worship pieces of toast that bear a passing resemblance to Christ.
But out of the billions of pieces of bread that have been made since the beginning of time, doesn’t it make sense that one of them will eventually end up looking like a bearded man?
Some of us witness extraordinary occurrences like people recovering from cancer, and we call it a miracle or an act of god.
But once again, out of the millions of people suffering from cancer, isn’t it just nothing more than a statistical inevitability that some will survive the disease?
I’m not suggesting you give up your religious beliefs, if any. I’m merely suggesting that we stop looking for reason where there is none, and embrace the freedom that lies within the randomness of reality.
Because ultimately, life is what you make of it.
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 49 comments… read them below or add one }
I respect and appreciate your article! But you seem to regard God as just another person, like you and me. The reason people make the attributions that you so criticize is because they do not look at God as another person. I understand that to you it may ridiculous for anything to be governed by a higher power, but to me and many –we just hold on to our faith and we believe that God has a plan for everyone and everything and at every moment.
Hi Fatima,
Thanks for your feedback, I really appreciate the respectful tone you’ve taken here and I’ll do my best to return the favour
First of all, I didn’t write this article to discredit belief in God, but rather to offer an easier to swallow model of how I believe he would operate in the event he DID exist.
I’m an agnostic by the way, which explains my noncommittal stand on his existence.
To me, faith is a last resort that’s only needed in areas devoid of logic, explanation and proof.
For example, if I could SEE God chilling out in the sky, I would no longer need to have faith that he exists. I would KNOW that he exists (and you can bet I’d start worshiping him, cause eternal damnation ain’t exactly my idea of a good time).
And in this case, what I SEE around me is random happenings that occur when you have billions of free-willed intelligent beings, all going around their business on the same terra firma.
Our lives on earth, and the things that happen to us in our lives, are exactly the same things that would happen if a bunch of scientists decided to make a nation of robots with artificial intelligence comparable to that of a human.
These robots would start interacting with each other, affecting each other, and creating ripples of cause and effect with their actions.
But does anything that happen in this nation of robots have any higher reason or purpose? Nope. They’re just robots programmed to make their own decisions, and it’s these decisions that result in events that could be misconstrued by a human as having a higher purpose, when they are in fact nothing more than the result of random variables clashing with one another.
The only difference between us and these robots is, we desperately look for meaning in everything that happens to us, because many of us are too afraid to submit to the possibility that we are nothing more than just another variable in a reality that we will never fully understand.
Drima,
I haven’t visited you for awhile and it’s nice to see that you’re doing well.
Before my visit here, I just happened to have read this thought-provoking essay by Richard Fernandez at The Belmont Club. (Some interesting comments, too)
Under the topic of your title, “Everything Happens for a Reason” I felt compelled to send it.
I have been agnostic throughout much of my life, but when I had children I felt joy and gratitude in a way that I had not experienced since I was a child full of wonder. It was then that I began to search in earnest. There is much out there to think about. I’ve always sensed that you are a deeply spiritual person and that you have a core of good common sense. I believe you’ll make that connection one day. Keep thinking and searching.
As Shakespeare’s Hamlet said:
There are more things in heaven and earth, Horatio,
Than are dreamt of in your philosophy.
Omar,
Reading your article, it seems to me that you are under the impression that Islam states that everything which happens happens because Allah ‘wrote’ it. As far as I know that is not the case.
The issue of ‘Qadr’, or fate/destiny, is more complex than that. We as muslims do have control over our actions and the consequences of those actions, in some cases and to a certain extent obviously. I must admit I do not know the specifics off the top of my head but if you wish I could get some clarity from the person who originally explained it to me.
Not sure if you are critical of widespread muslim belief that we have no control whatsoever or of the concept of fate/destiny within Islam itself?
Hi AOS,
I wasn’t targeting my thoughts at any particular religion in this case, but rather a belief system shared by people across many faiths.
I am a former practicing muslim, and my personal take on Islam’s version of fate is that it’s somewhat of a paradox, at least in the context of logic. God already KNOWS our destinies (how can he not, being an all-knowing god?). But - he gives us the free will make our own choices, even though he knows what choices we’re going to make, before we even make them.
Would appreciate if you could add more clarity to that statement, as I may be missing something here.
(on a side note, I’ve always wondered how it’s possible to make god angry or displeased, since he already knows what we’re going to do?)
My article, however, does not deal with the choices we make, but rather the random events beyond our control that happen in our lives.
Going back to the example of losing your leg in a car accident. The actions you take that lead up to such an event could not possibly have been known to you as catalysts towards it.
As such, they cannot be called true ‘choices’ - at least not the kind of choices that you make with the knowledge of the consequences thereafter.
Hey Omar,
Sounds like you and I have a lot in common. I agree with the arguments you’ve made, and I also like the alternative take on the phrase “everything happens for a reason”. Once I’d stopped being a believing practising Muslim I also started to hate it whenever people would tell me that things happen for a reason, because it always seemed to imply that they believed that was a bigger plan out there for us all. However, I’d never considered interpreting the phrase as a simple cause-and-effect scenario, in which case it makes perfect sense.
Back when I used to be a believer, I too used to grab onto the whole ‘grand plan’ concept in a desperate attempt to cope whenever things didn’t turn out my way. We get so attached to things and people and ideas that it becomes unbearable when we have to let go. Now, though, I’ve found much greater comfort in practising the Buddhist approach to existence: life is made up of moments, nothing is permanent, everything ultimately changes.
Which means that ultimately nothing belongs to us, loss is not such a big deal, and you just have to go with the flow. Keeping this in mind has helped me to become a much calmer and happier person than I ever was when I kept believing that “everything happens for a reason”.
“Everything happens for a reason” is a conveniet formula that allows to shed resposability for our actions. As long as a higher power is responsible, we - or the circumstances that led to an impredictible result - cannot be blamed.
here is what i believe, we are free to make our decisions, Allah only knows in advance what decisions we are going to make and this is does not contrdict with the fact that we were free when making such decsions for example when someone carelessly drives got hurt in accident, yes there is a reason for that which careless and he should be judged for that.
Allah is fair enough so how He would judge us for actions we are not responsible for.
and the quote “everything happens for a reason” is very true coz there is always wisdom behind everything happens for us.
for example, if u saw someone or even yourself got really hurt in an acccident, would not you be careful next time when u r driving?!
Sheema: I completely agree with your philosophy, makes a lot more sense to me because it doesn’t try to justify every single thing that happens
Eva: Convenient indeed, this is why I believe adopting the ‘Everything Happens For A Reason’ philosophy can be dangerous and damaging to people going through hardship - it’s a scapegoat.
Brownie: As I’ve mentioned quite a few times, I have no issues with the cause and effect model of ‘Everything Happens For A Reason’. Nobody here who agrees with my arguments does. And yes, seeing someone get into an accident would make me more cautious, at least for as long as it sticks in my mind - but in no way does this offer any indication of a higher power or his plans.
Omar…
It is a simple…yet complex question…
IF there is GOD…then everything likely has a purpose. I guess even a very religious person could aruge, that if God sees it fit for their to be randomness and just a bunch of probabilities…then that too is the way it is.
IF there is no God…then nothing means nothing…it is all a huge, complex, but utterly undirected accident…So go party and good luck.
I lean towards the God thing…for many reasons, but I certainly can’t close my eyes to the FACT that the world APPEARS mostly pretty random….guided by conincidence, luck (good and bad) and laws of probability.
Hard to argue faith and belief. Of course we can explore and debate and try to puzzle this out a bit…but ultimately…blind faith or a path of logic and reason can lead you to belief…or experience, logic and reason can lead you away from it.
Brownie’s argument does not move me much. These are the same folks that say “well, you can’t know pleasure until you know pain” etc. Well, such an argument limits God’s power. I am sure God could have arranged for some classroom time and DVD’s to show us about joy and pleasure. I don’t think you have to be temporarily paralyzed for 8 years to appreciate walking. I DO understand that things work that way, but I would not say that God HAD to have suffering in the world…certainly we humans don’t need the capacity of rip eyes out, pour molten lead into orfices etc. I think God could have come up with a kinder gentler reality.
Brownie…
Want to share something with you…
I have broken suffering down to 3 types:
1. Personal decisions that cause you to suffer
2. Decisions of others that inflict suffering on you
3. God’s decisions to inflict suffering on you (tsunami, earthquakes, congenital disease, disease not related to life style etc.).
The first two pretty much fit into your model…but #3 can get real sticky…like the suffering and death of a young child through some dumbass disease.
Omar:
ok, let me add something, our freedom of choice and actions are limited to what we call the fate, when u r planning to do something but something happens to prevent u from doing it, that is completely out of ur control and it is God’s will.
Howie:
although this is not what i talked about but i ll answer u, tell me who does not agree that we have to go through difficulty to know the true pleasure is , we never really appreciate what we have till we lose.
let me give u 2 examples : look to a governer who born with a golden spoon in his mouth and other who raised among the poor, who better serve his people and know their problems
i myself did not appreciate being healthy except after i stayed in bed really sick for 3 days and was not able to move a muscle.
at last, i would not argue that i know the answer for everything because i really don’t know why a child would suffer.
the human mind is still limited, or my mind at least
Brownie
Allah only knows in advance what decisions we are going to make and this is does not contrdict with the fact that we were free when making such decsions
If the decisions are already known then there can be no possible outcome other than the one God has foreseen. I do not see how this can possibly amount to free will. At best it is merely the illusion of free will.
Howie
IF there is GOD…then everything likely has a purpose.
Would you say God’s existence is without purpose since he had no one to create him?
Nice….. great post and great comments…. pre-destination vs. free will. Ironic, this infidel, Danish, cartoon-related sinner BELIEVES that things happen for a reason. I KNOW that there is a God, and i KNOW that He doesn’t care if we believe in Him , or worship Him or anything. (sorry, too tired to make sense)
Salaam all.
Z…
I would say God is FAR beyond anything I can mentally get a handle on. I don’t know if I even have a befuddled theory on the nature of God.
In terms of your response to Brownie…I think you are wrong. God “knows” you gonna do it…but he does not MAKE you do it.
Thing is…at least in the Old Testament…God was MAKING people do stuff…so the Free Will thing is real fraigle…but that is another story.
Halahippie…
You Danes drink as much as the damn Irish…no wonder you can’t think straight…go have some coffee and a….and a… and a…
And a DANISH
In terms of your response to Brownie…I think you are wrong. God “knows” you gonna do it…but he does not MAKE you do it.
I still do not see how there can be any room for free will if the outcomes are already known. Whether or not God himself makes you do something is irrelevant. For free will to exist the decisions can not be predetermined and thus would be unknowable until they were made. Saying God created us with free yet predetermined will is like saying God created a square circle.
I would say God is FAR beyond anything I can mentally get a handle on. I don’t know if I even have a befuddled theory on the nature of God.
We have some common ground here. In my view the fundamental nature of reality is FAR beyond anything I can mentally get a handle on. However, I see no reason to personify this unknown and likely unknowable force.
Z
“However, I see no reason to personify this unknown and likely unknowable force.”
Fair enough…but I gave up and just think of an old guy with a beard on a throne.
This is such a great discussion.
It seems that there is a a disconnect, and misunderstanding of the idea of free will and GOD knowing what will happen in the future.
Consider this: You want to drive from one coast to the other (in this example, I am refering to the U.S.). There are many different ways to get to your destination, and many different roads. The final outcome (getting to the other coast) is already known, but you, as the driver, have the choice of what road to take, and how much you drive…etc. On the other hand, you have no idea what would happen while you drive. You could get into an accident, spend extra time looking at scenes along the way…etc. Your experience will be dramatically different (theoretically) depending on which route you take.
Translate that to the argument involving god. God is infinite, He (in the singular , not masculine sense) can see in the future and knows what will happen. The difference is, God will not interfer and guide you along the path. That responsibility is ultimately up to you as a human being. God is an observer of events.
I am not sure why so many people have a hard time grasping this concept. God never said (in the Quran anyways) that he has a path planned out, and that each person must take that path.
If you think about it. If there is hell and heaven, this is the most logical way to judge people at the end. give them an open book and see who will fail or pass.
If you were a teacher, you can predict (and we are only human, and can be wrong.. this is just an example) that the student who have done well throughout the year will most likely pass the final exam. Sometimes though, they surprise you and fail, and vise versa.
Just my two cents in
Asoma…
I hear you friend…but it is FAR more complex. What your are describing, essentially, is deism…a theology that was popular a couple hundred years ago. Deists…like George Washington, believed God set the world in motion and then kind of sat back and let the chips fall.
But if we really believed this…then why would any of be stupid enough to pray?
And God judging us on our free will choices? Oh it is far far far more complicated than that. I have worked with mentally disabled people for years: get whacked in the head, have an anuerism, take Prednisone for a few weeks, have a psychotic episode…all of a sudden free will takes on a whole new meaning…
Do believe in miracles? I do. Therefore I believe God intervenes in the life of man using supernatural forces. But why do some people get miracles and others didn’t. If you are Muslim…then certainly you believe God intervened in the life of Mohamed…as he intervened in the life of Abraham, Moses, Pharoah, all the prophets, Saul of Tarsus and on and on and on.
So this discussion is quite nuanced…and has many difficult and very grey areas. But welcome to the blog of the “questioners” and the non-dogmatic.
Damn! This is certainly an awesome discussion. I’ll throw in my two cents in a while. Sorry I haven’t participated much.
Drima will be back.
And Howie, right on you Zionist CrUSAding Piggy Ape! Indeed, the blog of “questioners” and the non-dogmatic.
Drima…
Answer your damn Skype Muslim terrorist bitch!
Asoma
The final outcome (getting to the other coast) is already known, but you, as the driver, have the choice of what road to take, and how much you drive…etc.
But is God not also aware of the exact path you will take? If so I don’t see how this scenario gets us any closer to resolving the issue. If not then wouldn’t this conflict with his omniscience?
God is infinite, He (in the singular , not masculine sense) can see in the future and knows what will happen. The difference is, God will not interfer and guide you along the path.
The issue is not really with God’s interference. The problem is that if the future is knowable then it must happen in the way that it is known it will. This is in complete contradiction to what I understand as “free” will.
Z
I think you have this one wrong…Knowing does not necessarily mean pre-destining or “causing”. If God pre-destines, then the whole game is a hoax. I see no contradiction with free will in this case…not in the least. I have problems with free will in many other situations.
who the hell is drima and why is he acting like he runs omar’s blog?
remember folks, heck is for people who don’t believe in gosh.
I feel like stirring up shit> can you hear me Lirun?
________________________________________
The speech Obama won’t give in Egypt
________________________________________
Posted: June 02, 2009
1:00 am Eastern
© 2009
This week, President Barack Obama is scheduled to give a major address in Cairo to the Muslim world. He is likely to reiterate what he has stated previously to Muslim audiences, that America has no battle with Islam, deeply respects Islam and the Muslim world, and apologizes for any anti-Muslim sentiment that any Americans may express.
Here is what an honest address would sound like:
“Thank you for the honor of addressing the Egyptian people and the wider Muslim world.
“I am here primarily to dispel some of the erroneous beliefs many Muslims have about America and to thereby reassure you that America has no desire to be at war with the Muslim world.
“To my great disappointment, many Muslims have come to believe that my country has declared war on Muslims and Islam.
“Because of this widespread belief, I said in an interview with al-Arabiya a few months ago that we need to restore ‘the same respect and partnership that America had with the Muslim world as recently as 20 or 30 years ago.’
WND’s Aaron Klein gets to the heart of Israel’s decline in his new book, “The Late Great State of Israel: How Enemies Within and Without Threaten the Jewish Nation’s Survival”
“Lets’ look a little deeper at that relationship. For the truth is, as noted by the Pulitzer-Prize winning columnist for the American newspaper the Washington Post, Charles Krauthammer, in the last 20-30 years America did not just respect Muslims, it bled for Muslims. We Americans engaged in five military campaigns on behalf of Muslims, each one resulting in the liberation of a Muslim people: Bosnia, Kosovo, Kuwait, Afghanistan and Iraq.
“Bosnia and Kosovo, as well as the failed 1992-93 Somalia intervention to feed starving African Muslims – in which 43 Americans were killed – were all humanitarian exercises. In none of them was there a significant U.S. strategic interest at stake. So, in fact, in these 20 years, my country, the United States of America has done more for suffering and oppressed Muslims than any other nation, Muslim or non-Muslim.
“While I recognize that gratitude is the rarest positive human quality, I need to say – because candor is the highest form respect – that America has not only not received little gratitude from the Muslim world, it has been the object of hatred, mass murder and economic attack from Muslim individuals, groups and countries.
“Just to cite a few of many examples from the last 40 years:
“In 1973, Muslim terrorists attacked the American embassy in Sudan and murdered our country’s ambassador, Cleo Noel, and the chief deputy of the mission, George C. Moore. Later in 1973, the Arab oil embargo against America sent my country into a long and painful recession. In 1977, Muslim militants murdered the U.S. ambassador to Lebanon, Frances E. Meloy, and Robert O. Waring, the U.S. economic counselor. In 1979, radical Muslims violently attacked my country’s embassy in Tehran, and for 14 months held American diplomats hostage, often in appalling conditions. In 1998, Muslim militants bombed the American embassy in Nairobi, killing 12 Americans and 280 Kenyans, and bombed our embassy in Tanzania, killing another 11 Americans. Then, on Sept. 11, 2001, 19 Muslims who had been living in America slit the throats of American pilots and flight attendants and then flew airplanes into civilian buildings in New York City, burning 3,000 innocent Americans to death.
“So, my friends here in Egypt, between America and the Muslim world, who exactly has been making war on whom?
“I have enormous differences with my predecessor, President George W. Bush. But please remember that less than a week after thousands of Americans were slaughtered in the name of your religion, President Bush went to the Islamic Center in Washington, D.C., and announced that Islam was a religion of peace. Moreover, in a country of 300 million people, of whom only a few million are Muslim, there is virtually no recorded incident of anti-mosque or other anti-Muslim violence despite the butchery of 9/11 and the popular support for Osama bin Laden that we saw in the Muslim world after 9/11.
“I ask you to please ask yourselves what Egypt’s reaction would have been had 19 Christians, in the name of Christianity, slaughtered 3,000 Egyptians. How would the Christians of Egypt and elsewhere in the Middle East have fared?
“As it is, because of persecution by Muslim majorities, Christians have been leaving the Middle East in such great numbers that for the first time since Christ, there are large parts of the Middle East that have become empty of both Jews and Christians.
“Yet, at the same time, millions of Muslims have moved to Western countries and to America. It is fair to say that the freest, and often the safest, place in the world for a practicing Muslim is the United States of America.
“Muslim-Americans are treated exactly as other Americans are treated. It is exceedingly rare to hear any anti-Muslim bigotry in my country. And while there is some criticism of the Muslim world, but there is far more criticism of Christianity in America than of Islam.
“Unfortunately, in much of the Muslim world today anti-Jewish speeches and writing are frequently identical to the genocidal anti-Semitism one heard and read in Nazi Germany. This is a blight on your civilization. How can you seriously charge that America is at war with Islam when in fact it is much of the Islamic world that is at war with Jews and Christians?
“I know that you would like me to announce that America is abandoning its support for Israel. But every president since Harry Truman, Democrat and Republican, has been passionate about enabling Israel to defend itself from those who wish to destroy it. And that, dear Muslims, is the issue. America will continue to support a two-state solution to the Arab-Israeli dispute, but the issue has never really been about two states. It has always been about Palestinians and other Arabs and Muslims recognizing Israel’s right to exist as a Jewish state.
“As a friend of Egypt and of the Muslim world, I want to say something from the bottom of my heart: The day the Arab world ceases obsessing over the existence of a Jewish state the size of Belize will be a great day for the Arab and Muslim worlds. Your obsession with Israel has cost you dearly in every area of social development. This is easily demonstrated. If Israel were destroyed – and the so-called “right of return” of millions of third-generation Palestinian refugees would ensure that outcome as effectively as would a nuclear device from Iran – what difference would that make to the Egyptian economy, to Egyptian lack of freedoms, or anything else that matters to Egyptians? In my opinion, none whatsoever. Preoccupation with Israel has simply enabled the Arab world to not look within for 60 years.
“Finally, my fellow Americans would feel more confident in American-Muslim relations if they had ever seen a large demonstration of Muslims anywhere against all the terror committed by Muslims in the name of Islam – whether in London, Madrid, New York, Bali, Cairo, or Mumbai. The mark of a great civilization – and Arab civilization was indeed once great – is a willingness to criticize itself.
“Thank you again for this opportunity to address you. I could have patronized you by exaggerating American misdeeds and ignoring yours. But I have too much respect for you.
“Shukran jiddan.”
A letter from JEM Prisoners of War in Khartoum to the UN Human Rights Rapporteur to Sudan
May 25th, 2009
Your Excellency, Dr. Sima Samar, the UN Human Rights Rapporteur to Sudan.
Greetings.
We very much thank you for visiting us in prison in and commend your work in Human Rights Issues in Sudan. We, members of JEM and Prisoners of War in Kober Prison, Sudan, have been subjected to blatant breach of our rights as Prisoners of War. We summarise our predicament in the following:
1.We are committed members of JEM and are in war against the government of Sudan (GoS). Taking arms against the government has never been our preference. We have been forced into it because GoS has left us with no other choice.
2. In our struggle to secure our legitimate rights, we have invaded Khartoum, the very centre where decisions to bomb, rape and pillage Darfur are taken.
3. Khartoum is signatory to the Four Conventions of Geneva, one of whom concerns us as Prisoners of war. In accordance with those Conventions, Khartoum is in direct breach of international laws regarding POW and Human Rights Statutes.
5. We convey to you that following our capture on or after May 10th 2009, the date of invasion of the National Capital by JEM we have been deprived of our human rights and subjected to horrific torture:
a) Captives were divided into two groups. The first group of 108 consisted of members of JEM who were taken to an unknown destination. According to reliable information, members of this group have been subjected to mock trials prior to their summary execution. We appeal to you to investigate the fate of this group as it constitutes one of the worst atrocities of recent time (names attached with original letter).
b) A separate group of 15 members of JEM were executed in a firing squad at the White Nile, Ingaz Bridge on May 11th 2009.
c) The second group were taken into Military Prison of Omdurman and subjected to horrendous torture using electric shocks, whips, iron bars, dogs and sleep and water deprivation. Five captives died of thirst in the Military Prison before the rest were taken to the Security HQ and later to Kober Prison between May 11th and May 18th 2009.
d) In addition to that, Prisoners were subjected to racist abuse targeting their ethnicity and regional origin. Some of these prisoners were left thirsty for three days and later forced to drink their urine.
e) After more than forty days of continuous torture, the captives were moved into so-called trials under Terrorism Act. Prisoners were tortured to extract and record “confessions” later presented to the courts. Recorded confessions were taken as evidence in court and defence lawyers were not permitted to challenge their legitimacy. In a clear breach even of the Sudanese National legal System, laws under which the prisoners were convicted were enacted after invasion of Omdurman.
f) A total of 91 POWs were sentenced to death, including seven who suffer mental and psychiatric problems and have no connection with JEM. Trials took place under a new Charter drafted by the Chief Justice. The Charter prevailed over and contradicted higher sources of law including Sudan Transitional Constitution, 2005, Sudan Criminal Law, 1981 and Law of Evidence, 1983. All legal objections put forward by defence teams were rejected in favour of continuation of the fake trials. Failing to secure legitimacy of the courts on Constitution grounds, the judges resorted to reference to Nurenburg trials as a guiding precedence for their legal process.
g) Throughout the trials, the prosecutors relied on torture-extracted confessions and witnesses largely drawn from security personnel and others who were involved in torture. Strangely enough, those who refused to make any confession under torture also received death sentences.
f) In Kober Prison, the captives were kept under conditions similar to those of the Nazi concentration camps. More than 11 prisoners were kept in a cell of 2X3 squire meters of uneven floor. Cells were badly ventilated, poorly lit and with each prisoner allowed to leave for toilet once every 24 hours only. Later improvement introduced meant remaining in the cell for 22 hours a day and with only two short breaks for prayers a day.
Absence of any health services was compounded by deliberate inclusion of others who suffer infectious diseases like TB and mental problems in the same cells. Loud noise was pumped into cells are regular intervals.
297 prisoners were forced to share three toilets with each inmate given a single visit of a limited time per day. Captives were kept in the same quarter allocated for prisoners awaiting execution and were forced to march in front of corpses of executed criminals.
Cells were regularly searched in a humiliating way and under supervision of the Ministry of Internal Affairs instead of the usual Prison authority.
The POWs were kept in shackles welded directly on their legs causing severe injuries and burns in the process.
Your Excellency:
With all of the above, we appeal through your office for the following:
1. We appeal to the international community to exert pressure on the government of Sudan to meet its international obligations regarding respect of human rights and put an end to the current mass eradication in Darfur
2. We appeal to the international community to use its powers and force the government of Sudan to release JEM war prisoners and all those who have been detained or convicted in connection with Darfur conflict and in line with the Doha Good Will Agreement.
3. We appeal to the United Nations and the Human Rights Council to launch an independent forum to investigate the case of the 108 JEM prisoners whose fate remains unknown to this day.
4. In the meantime and until all JEM prisoners are released, we appeal to you to ensure that those who are currently under detention are treated humanely and in line with international conventions.
Sincerely
JEM Prisoners of War in Kober Prison
I think you have this one wrong…Knowing does not necessarily mean pre-destining or “causing”. If God pre-destines, then the whole game is a hoax. I see no contradiction with free will in this case…not in the least.
Can the future happen in any other way than in the one God “knows” it will? This is the heart of the contradiction. It is not about God causing the future but about the future being known. For free will to truly exist limits would need to be placed on God’s omniscience.
Drima: I’m not suggesting you give up your religious beliefs
Ponder: So you want us to think like you and look at things the way you do… what if my religious belief sounds very logical and analytical. What you are suggesting is the worst kind of imperialism!!
إِنَّ اللَّهَ لاَ يَسْتَحْيِي أَن يَضْرِبَ مَثَلاً مَّا بَعُوضَةً فَمَا فَوْقَهَا فَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ آمَنُواْ فَيَعْلَمُونَ أَنَّهُ الْحَقُّ مِن رَّبِّهِمْ وَأَمَّا الَّذِينَ كَفَرُواْ فَيَقُولُونَ مَاذَا أَرَادَ اللَّهُ بِهَذَا مَثَلاً يُضِلُّ بِهِ كَثِيراً وَيَهْدِي بِهِ كَثِيراً وَمَا يُضِلُّ بِهِ إِلاَّ الْفَاسِقِينَ
(آية 26) سورة البقرة
1:26 “Allah disdains not to use the similitude of things, lowest as well as highest. Those who believe know that it is truth from their Lord; but those who reject Faith say: “What means Allah by this similitude?” By it He causes many to stray, and many He leads into the right path; but He causes not to stray, except those who forsake (the path),-
So since Allah created all mankind he already knew that they will be some Drima(s) with Einsteinic queries like weather everything happens for a reason?
Allow me to give certain reason for certain things:
• The reason you exist is because your parents had it that night
• The reason that you hide behind a fake name is that you don’t have balls
“Think” about the following verse regardless of its source. Read as if you read a phrase in a magazine article:
” أَلَمۡ تَرَ إِلَى رَبِّكَ كَيۡفَ مَدَّ الظِّلَّ وَلَوۡ شَاء لَجَعَلَهُ سَاكِنًا ثُمَّ جَعَلۡنَا الشَّمۡسَ عَلَيۡهِ دَلِيلًا”
25- سورة الفرقان؛ الآية 45
25:45 Hast thou not turned thy vision to thy Lord?- How He doth prolong the shadow! If He willed, He could make it stationary! then do We make the sun its guide.
I have many to share but you always disappoint me… I hope that you think before you post.
Your core problem Mr. Drima is that you don’t have the capacity. You write about issues that are beyond your intellect and please don’t understand that I am trying to weaken your ability of thinking or I am against freedom of speech. Instead, I want you to earn that capacity first which is best found in the only unchanged book since its revelation as Muslims believe or its creation as atheists or non-Muslims claim. THE HOLY QURAN!
By the way is your leg harmed?
God bless
Ponder…
Say WHAT?
http://media.photobucket.com/image/funny%20black%20people/dunerdude1/obama_nigger_watermelon.jpg
WHAT!
This topic is very interesting and I just wanted to throw in my opinion… If we think about “God” existing free of “time”, then “time” is a concept constructed to give us a frame-of-reference with which we perceive our “reality”. (The same way that male / female, one / many are not concepts you can relate to God, neither is time). If the universe is infinite (and we cannot fully comprehend infinity) than how can we really understand free will and destiny? It’s my hypothesis that in an infinite universe things don’t happen sequentially, the way that the concept of “time” has us thinking that they do. In an infinite universe there must be an infinite number of possibilities that exist for every scenario (every moment experienced by every viewpoint)… I think that God “knows” all of these possibilities, they are all “written” in the fact that they infinitely exist, and what we perceive as what truly happens in our lives (our reality) could be a combination of what we chose (free will) and what God chooses (divine intervention)… it doesn’t mean the other possibilities don’t also still exist just because they are not our reality… My end point is that we really don’t know, its pretty much beyond our level of comprehension, but it doesn’t hurt to think and wonder about it… do things happen for a reason? i don’t know, and really neither do you, so if it makes people feel better about their lives than let them think so, why not? If anyone finds it annoying (Omar) then they are really fooling themselves in thinking they know anything more than the person who believes everything happens for a reason does!!!
Thanks for all your input guys, you’ve taken this discussion to a level I couldn’t have reached alone.
Howie: Your viewpoints are refreshing. Would be great to meet you in person.
Ponder: If you had taken the time to read this post properly, you would know that it was mine and not Drima’s. I won’t entertain any more of your arguments, I don’t see the point as you seem incapable of intelligent discussion.
And yes, my leg is fine. How’s your brain doing?
Anonymous: I’ve tried explaining this as best as I can, so let me try again. The reason I find the concept of everything happening for a reason to be ‘annoying’ is because the random events that happen in our lives can be perfectly explained with scientific and mathematical concepts like probability. I fail to see the point of attaching a metaphysical component to a phenomenon that doesn’t require it. I acknowledge that doing so gives a sense of comfort to some people, but I am entitled to my opinion as much as they are entitled to theirs. Like you said, I don’t KNOW for sure (being agnostic, not knowing for sure is the very basis of my beliefs), but, given what we DO know, I am confident that my opinion makes a lot more sense compared to those who believe in a higher power micromanaging everything that happens. As you also said, it doesn’t hurt to think and wonder about these things, which is exactly what I’m doing - I’m not pointing a gun at anyone’s head eh
Omar…
Thank you. I would like to meet you as well…
I try to mix some serious ideas with humor and self-mortification and absurdity. As corny as it sounds…deep inside beats the heart of a universalist. That is not to say I accept all behavior, all culture, all ideas as equally good, I don’t believe that for a minute…a universalist is not a relativist. However, I have found great wisdom and goodness (as well as great stupidity and ugliness) from a wide variety of people’s and religions.
By accident of birth…I am a Jew and for a whole bunch of reasons, I have remained one…but I flirted with Christianity, Hinduism, Bhuddism and even looked at Sufism. Had a girlfriend that was a Bahai way way back (my luck…she became a Bahai and a celebate at the same time
). All this has profoundly shaped the way I experience and interact with the world along with still leaving me undecided and utterly confused at 57 years old.
But I enjoy this site because of the open and non-dogmatic environment. Where in the world do you live?
Oh…and I have said it before…when people pin me in a corner and ask me what I believe…well here it is:
“I believe I’ll have another beer”
Anonymous! :
It’s my hypothesis that in an infinite universe things don’t happen sequentially, the way that the concept of “time” has us thinking that they do.
Would you say that all of time already exists?
In an infinite universe there must be an infinite number of possibilities that exist for every scenario (every moment experienced by every viewpoint)… I think that God “knows” all of these possibilities, they are all “written” in the fact that they infinitely exist, and what we perceive as what truly happens in our lives (our reality) could be a combination of what we chose (free will) and what God chooses (divine intervention)… it doesn’t mean the other possibilities don’t also still exist just because they are not our reality…
Do all the other possibilities exist as actual outcomes in other realities? I think this could work for solving the issue but it raises some interesting new questions. Would each version of you in the various realities have a different soul? Would heaven be segregated by reality or could I meet my doppelgangers?
Or are there only one set of actual outcomes? If so would not the one specific set be “known” resulting in the same problem as before?
Z,
Would you say that all of time already exists?
If you think about a straight line that extends infinity in two directions, any point on that line “exists” at the same time as any other does. If you want to examine that line between two points and pick a direction for it to move in, then you could see the points on that line as moving in direction over a period of “time”… im thinking about the universe as that infinite straight line but multidimensional, the concept of time as a way for us to understand a portion of that infinity… so I wouldn’t say that all of time exists the way you are asking it, but do you see what i meant by that statement?
Do all the other possibilities exist as actual outcomes in other realities? I think this could work for solving the issue but it raises some interesting new questions. Would each version of you in the various realities have a different soul? Would heaven be segregated by reality or could I meet my doppelgangers?
I think that maaaybe all other possibilities exist as actual outcomes all at the same “time” (like all the points on the infinite line exist at the same time) … not with a different soul, but with different probabilities and the only “reality” YOU experience, is what you perceive based on your choices. If God knows all of those infinite possibilities, the one that you actually experience doesn’t really matter…
But I don’t know if I believe in heaven and hell in the traditional (Islamic, I was raised muslim) sense anymore, I think good and evil are necessary for each other to exist and for the human experience to be what it is… therefore my theories don’t take into account some judgment based on that reality the individual perceives… but thats another can of worms!
Anonymous! :
so I wouldn’t say that all of time exists the way you are asking it, but do you see what i meant by that statement?
I think so, it sounds to me like your saying the whole of time (all points on the line) exists all at once.
I think that maaaybe all other possibilities exist as actual outcomes all at the same “time” (like all the points on the infinite line exist at the same time) … not with a different soul, but with different probabilities and the only “reality” YOU experience, is what you perceive based on your choices.
I am not sure what you mean by all other possibilities existing as actual outcomes at the same time. At any one point in time when a choice is made can you simultaneously choose to make that one choice in more than one way? From God’s perspective (being outside time) would not all our choices in the single reality be known before he created the universe? I am probably missing something but the theory doesn’t make sense to me without an infinite number of other realities.
But I don’t know if I believe in heaven and hell in the traditional (Islamic, I was raised muslim) sense anymore
I don’t either; I just thought it was an interesting hypothetical question.
Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen.
-Albert Einstein, (attributed)
Another conclusion from another human.
Is common sense logic?
If we agree to the above conclusion we must agree we all have different backgrounds.
But the question of “reason for life” truly is common regardless of backgrounds.
In desperation many seek the best conclusion that may best suit their lives and the lives of those around them.
That is the power to adapt.
A discussion is a mechanism to adapt.
An argument is a mechanism to adopt.
Predictability is the ability conceive.
To be able to do so you need Knowledge. A lot of knowledge.
A constructor can predict an outcome of his product because he knows the constituents of his product and knows the extent of power and fragility of his product.
An instructor studied the constructors product, and only then can he predict.
A conductor doesn’t need to predict, because its all been programmed.
SOAP: Subjective, Objective, Assessment and Plan
For most its just SAM, and better yet ,for others its just SP.
The observation is as follows:
1+1=2 and 0+0=0, and then the universe equation of 0+0=1
The idea of Determinism answer the last equation with the logic that there is a missing number that we just cant see.
While the idea of Randomness gives the logic answer with the request to re question the observation. So it says that the equation is in fact 0 - 1=1.
Determinists are stuck with the explanation of how can there be something there when you just cannot see it or feel it with any of our five senses. They’ve come up with great responses like we know theres air we just cant see the air. But air is felt by touch and science has developed methods to see air. So they’ve decided to go live with the 6th sense.
The Randomness followers are stuck with explaining the origin of the -1. But just like randomness is throwing stones blindly at a standing thin stick and may be one stone will hit, that “may be” still hasn’t appeared, and the answer comes finally as “its just like that”.
Both sides judge each other as “desperate”.
But thats just it. Maximum yield arrives from desperation + guidance.
It is this Guidance, this “catalyst” which is sought of. If you want optimum you need a catalyst.
Thus the question becomes “what is the catalyst?”
According to your lifestyle your catalyst becomes whatever you deem most suitable with lifestyle. So some have chosen many names and decided to give the names different “natures”. Some decided to make them more than one catalyst.
It became the quest for the TRUTH. The true nature of the catalyst.
The nature and character of the catalyst becomes the essence of the lifestyle, the source of aspiration and inspiration and thus influence on the persons own nature, character and personality.
For those who believe they have indeed discovered the true nature of the catalyst, they take it upon them the quest to spread the word of the true nature of the catalyst so that all could be left at ease and need not to search for the Catalyst.
The catalyst has been attributed to many names, regardless the definitions of the names.
Of these include Religions, Paganism, Atheism etc.
Democracy today has infact become another name for religion, rather than just a virtue. It is regarded as the solution to all modern day social difficulties, the catalyst. And just like wars have been waged for religions so has democracy.
But just like I am ,theoretically, the best man who can describe myself, and just like hydrogen itself can exhibit its nature, and just like we can only describe others only after we experience, then just the same must apply to the catalyst.
When a constructor wants to run his product, he knows what to do when things go wrong. When things go wrong or when the product requires upgrading, he is the one for the job.
- End of Chapter 1
this is a gross philosophical oversimplification.
well said!!!!!!!
best article i’ve read in a long time!!
Beautiful. I could not agree more! I HATE it when people say everything happens for a reason. CRINGE. Of coarse god does not micro manage each individual destiny. Whoever you are, thankyou. I sighed with relief when I read this knowing that there are still intelligent beings on this planet.
I totally agree with you. To me, this is a phrase that is uttered without much real thought. It may be a comforting phrase for some, but how does it comfort the mother of a sick child or the sister who loses her brother to a senseless killing? I ask everyone to re-think the use of this phrase and if you want to offer comfort, please work a little harder to come up with something that stands the test of reason.
Thank you.
EVERY THING DOES NOT HAPPEN FOR A REASON.
RATHER, THE REASON MADE IT HAPPEN.
EXAMPLE: if I am in the bed i think to my self I have to go to work. Thus, work is the reason that I have to get out of bed. Thus, the reason comes before the HAPPEN. How do I make The reason of work HAPPEN, I get out of the bed, wash, put my clothes on, pray, then go to work.
Your basic premise seems rooted in the negative. You state “We use it to console ourselves when something goes wrong” and “We use it to philosophize our life’s circumstances. And in many cases, it’s the only thing left for us to hold on to…” For me, it’s entirely the opposite. While I understand that for many people it would be easy to fall into the “trap” of using that phrase to try to better understand, justify, or find meaning in life’s circumstances I have often used that phrase when things are working well, when I have those “Aha!” moments in life, when I have little epiphanies along the way of life’s journey. And I think that sort of attitude creates a more harmonious understanding of what it means to believe in a higher power that has a plan, and how we operate within the parameters of that plan.
Omar:
You were articulate and inoffensive in your appraoch to this article. You’re also dead wrong. There is a God…not maybe…definitely…and you would do weel to get to know Him, not for salvation from eternal damnation (althought that is a benefit) as much as so you can understand truly what you are writing about. And if God showed Himself to you, as you say, you wouldn’t believe. If you don;t believe without Him showing Himself to you, you wouldn’t believe after He shows Himself. Why? becasue you have to spend a gift given to you by God, called faith, to believe. Faith is you puttin gyour confidence in the object of your faith, whether seen or unseen. If I tell you I have been to Hainen, China, you can believe or not. You probably haven’t seen Hainene but it exists. You can check it out. Believe or no? Same with God. God reveals Himself in ways that make sense to humans, even through nature…believe or not?
Anyway…get to know the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. You are a five word conversation from eternal life…”Father I believe in Christ.” Have that conversation with God the Father and it is the moment of eternal life for you.
I used to think that everything happens for a reason - until I realized it doesn’t. Everything just happens. There is no “God”, there is no “force” - we’re all just creatures of circumstances. I’m not entirely sure how to word this, but one day I will know. What I mean, is that people keep making up these theories - which have absolutely no base - and that’s the same with all the religions. “God” didn’t write the Bible, the people did. Just like they’ve made themselves and others believe stuff like “everything happens for a reason.” PEOPLE created a reason to start World War II; people commit rape and murder; people LIE, MANIPULATE and STEAL. At the same time I understand how it’s so easy to just believe in something. “God does exist. God loves me.” - And all of a sudden, everything makes sense!? I wish more people would start thinking for themselves and questioning the things they read/are told. If you let go of the easiest way you’ll learn to live the harder way, therefore understand, improve and lead your own life instead of following everyone else.
I couldn’t agree with you more. I’ve been annoyed by this saying for a very long time. “Everything happens for a reason.” Someone even goes as far as bad things happen so that you can appreciate good things. Based on this view, when someone is raped, she is taught to appreciate the time when she is not raped. Really? You really need to such a harsh lesson to learn to appreciate the time you’re not raped? In some extremely bad cases, you ask them to name a possible reason why God or whatever they believe would do that to someone, they would come up with something like God works in a mysterious way. You can’t always understand his reasons. But seriously, doesn’t matter what your religion is, do you really think that a god could set up a rape so that someone can learn something?
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