This is an open thread to discuss the upcoming ICC decision on the arrest warrant for dictator Omar Hassan al-Bashir. It’s expected to be announced in a matter of hours.
Here’s my analysis. Here’s the in-depth one by Enough Project. It’s awesome, but they’re placing too much hope on the international community and the UN I think.
Dear fellow Sudanese bloggers, drop a link to your own blog post on the matter in the comments section so that it will get noticed by the media. I’ve got a number of journalists emailing me, and they’re all interested in hearing what we Sudanese bloggers have to say about this.
Everyone else, share your thoughts, if any. This is potentially history in the making. Meanwhile, I’m gonna go find me some pop-corn.
Let the “entertainment” begin!
UPDATE: Ooo, surprise of the century! So what’s gonna happen now? Will Bashir get overthrown by Salah Gosh or something? Dum dum dum… the plot thickens! Oh yeah. More pop-corn please.
UPDATE: This is bad news, and I’m not surprised at all by it. Here’s the latest from Rob Crilly’s Twitter stream:
10 NGOs being kicked out of Sudan altogether. Include Oxfam, Care, ACF. Got calls seconds after ICC presser started
hearing it may be 13 NGOs, probably cannot confirm at this time of night
Getting increasingly irritated by celebrations for the ICC. People should check out what’s happening here, not listen to Save Darfur
NGOs appealing. Will Khartoum have the balls to see it through? Masters of reversing decisions, centre overruling regional authorities etc
laptops and phones being taken from charities here now
More here.
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
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So, they dropped the genocide charges and went for “war crimes” and “crimes against humanity”.
I can’t wait to read the reaction of the Sudanosphere!
Well the warrant has been issued….
Fuck, as much as I despise Bashir - this is not good news! I fear we are entering an even more turbulent phase of our history as a people and as a nation, and what’s even more depressing is the fact that currently we just have no other viable alternative to the current government!
I can already imagine the extent of international isolationism were going to face.
And what pisses me off even more is the bullshit they’re spewing on Sudanese TV, how the west doesn’t want us to develop, how this is all about neo-colonialism, a Jewish conspiracy and the masses are eating this all up!
I told you that they (the ICC judges) were gonna do it, and now that the court has issued the warrant for his arrest I must say that I am very relieved. For a minute there I was afraid that the ICC would bow to the immense polticial pressure NOT to issue an arrest warrant, but at the end of the day the judges stood by the court’s mandate.
This is about justice for the people of Darfur and all of Sudan, and it is about the enforcement of international criminal law, not politics. Sudan’s President Omar al-Bashir can do all of the dances he wants, he can issue all kinds of declarations of defiance to his supporters___ but the indictment stands. To my knowledge it cannot be retracted by the AU, the Arab League, the EU, the US, the UN, the Chinese government or any other power other than the International Criminal Court in The Hague. The ICC’s Chief Prosecutor Luis Moreno-Ocampo is not going to back down, I guarantee you. Neither is the new US Ambassador to the United Nations, Susan E. Rice (Condi’s evil twin sister)___ watch how she works (intimidates) the reluctant powers on the UN Security Council over the next months to enforce this arrest warrant.
As I told you many months ago President al-Bashir is going down for the atrocities he has ordered to be carried out against the people of Darfur, and today the hammer has fallen. If President Omar al-Bashir had any dignity as a man and as a leader, he would turn himself in to the court to stand trial and spare the people of his country any further misery. If the Government of Sudan had any sense they would have been expecting this warrant and would have been prepared in advance to replace Omar al-Bahsir with someone who could lead the country properly. Now it is left up to the people of Sudan to demand a change in the government. What y’all gonna do, just sit there and do nothing?
“No peace without justice” is what the good Archbishop Desmond Tutu says and many people around the world are in agreement___ people in power and with the power to enforce this warrant. Move over Charles Taylor, you’re getting company. Halleluhjah!
Here is my analysis:
Here is my analysis on the situation
Best,
AK
@political, concerning your last paragraph. You know what I think? I think people in the world - all over this rotten place - are complaining too much and not looking into their hearts and at their hands realizing how they can make the world a better place to live in. It’s always, but then ALWAYS, blaming someone else for their own lazy asses.
(i’m not referring to people who have a right to complain - such as direct (civilian) victims of war or natural disasters or other catastrophies)
It’s time to WAKE UP. Finally DO something. Nothing should be more rewarding then having managed to make the place a much safer and nicer place to live in for future generations.
Drima,
Here is my thought on the matter.
I am not surprised by the outcome of this whole deal… I just want to the ICC to tell me what their next move is going to be.
Here’s my take on the issue:
http://sudaneseoptimist.wordpress.com/2009/03/05/on-the-icc-arrest-warrant/
The only person more responsible than Al-Bashir for the Darfur conflict is the Gosh—he’s under a lot of scrutiny not only from the international arena, but also from members of his own party. He’s not permitted to enter the US or the UK. The NCP would be very dim-witted if they chose to push either Gosh or Taha in the direction of a coup d’état of sorts… especially while all of this is still raw.
Like you said…”let the entertainment begin!”
Optimist, I doubt that Gosh is forbidden from entering the US.
All that harsh rhetoric he’s spewing is just red meat for the Sudanese public to consume.
Behind the scenes, he’s been very helpful to the CIA.
Along with Taha, he’s *apparently* also willing to cooperate with the international community and make compromises to establish peace in Darfur, and to implement the faltering CPA.
Oh well, let’s see how this all unfolds. China already condemned the decision and voiced its support for Bashir.
We are praying for Sudan, in contact with friends there, it is very worrying.
Al Bashir is not only a criminal he is a mob boss, he presides over a gang of ruthless thugs that will do anything imaginable to maintain their grip on power in order to accumulate as much loot as possible. They have no regard for human life nor do they have a single shred of patriotism. This is all pretty much known to every Sudanese. What gets my blood boiling to a point that everything in front of me freezes and all I see is red, is when educated and aware Sudanese claim that this is a conspiracy aimed at the re-colonization of Sudan! What is Bashir’s criminal political party doing right now? Sudan is being colonized by the Islamic Brotherhood (NCP) where they (and cronies) control all the natural resources (i.e. accumulated wealth), they rule with an iron fist, oppress the people, strip away everyone’s civil liberties, control the judiciary process and just like the old colonial powers they don’t give a damn about the natives and send the country’s wealth to their accounts in other nations!
Then there is this straight up BS about no other viable alternative to Al Bashir! Excuse me? Are you trying to tell me there is no capable Sudanese other than this military thug able to lead this country out of the misery the Islamic Brother lead us to? There are thousands of capable Sudanese who have been chased out of Sudan by the Islamic Brotherhood since they took power in 1989, all of which have sacrificed everything for their country. Now the Islamic Brotherhood of Sudan’s propaganda machine wants us to believe we have no other alternative but them or else we will find ourselves to be another Iraq!
Even though I don’t think he will be handed over to the ICC, I’m very happy that this thug who stole power from a democratically elected government in a bid to stop the North-South peace process after the Islamic Brotherhood failed in the general elections is finally cornered after 20 years of brutal rule. Al Bashir is not any different from any other Tyrant (i.e. Bush, Olmert, Sharon, Saddam, Mubarak, ..etc.) who thinks they are above the law, we the Sudanese are just lucky enough that after 20 years he (like Saddam) doesn’t have the full backing of any superpower.
The question now is; will the Islamic Brotherhood let him hang alone and continue on their destructive path, will they protect Al basher and continue on their destructive path, or will they finally fear the God they claim to represent and peacefully return power to the Sudanese people in order for this country to live in peace and achieve its full potential!?!
Indeed Sudan continue to suffer because a single political movement believe they alone own Sudan and are the only ones allowed to dictate its future. They will butcher anyone or anything that stands in their way because they like Zionist believe it is their divine duty to rule and impose their doctrine on others.
Yet Sudan and Islam are innocent of their doings, and I remain hopefully because every Tyrant has his day.
*
Yet Sudan and Islam are innocent of their doings, and I remain *hopeful* because every Tyrant has his day.
I am a Zionist and I assure you I do not believe that I have a right or duty to impose my doctrine (whatever it might be) on anybody and like most Zionists totally support the Darfurians and Sudanese Christians and Nubians and anybody in Sudan who is currently opposed to the Arab government which is allied with Iran, Syria, and Hamas.
Zionists, like the Darfuris, merely believe that Arabs don’t have a right to murder us or impose their rule on the middle east. If that is too much to take, we have a problem. Hence there are wars everywhere between Arabs and their vassals and Arabs and their would-be vassals.
Al Bashir is not any different from any other Tyrant (i.e. Bush, Olmert, Sharon, Saddam, Mubarak, ..etc.)
…
They will butcher anyone or anything that stands in their way because they like Zionist believe it is their divine duty to rule and impose their doctrine on others.
You truly have a one-track mind, don’t you. Even when discussing internal Sudanese affairs you take a jab at “Evil Zionists” and “The West”.
Amusing. Obsessive, but amusing.
Andrew -
I think you said it best. However, I will take a step further and paraphrase what Mandela believes. Domination of one group over the other makes all of us less human.
Salaam
Ron -
I love the way he listed Bush and Olmert among the tyrants. He really lives in a different world. Olmert cannot even keep his own cabinet under his control, how would he find time to tyranise people? (And whom would he tyranise?)
Isn’t it weird how we always learn so much about what Zionists want from people who aren’t Zionists?
Andrew you are already imposing your doctrine on the Palestinians and your neighbors so please save us the BS. And Ron I couldn’t agree more.
“Domination of one group over the other makes all of us less human.”
Salam
Wouldn’t dream of it. They can live in whichever way they like for all I care.
It’s the attacking and trying to murder Jews that bothers me. I don’t consider it Zionist doctrine to shoot back. I consider it human doctrine to do so. Zionism only reinforces the belief that Jews too have a right to defend themselves. Very often people seem to assume that Jews, for some reason, do not have such a right and that Zionism is only about claiming such a right. It’s wrong. Jews have that right with or without Zionism.
But with the imposing of a Zionist doctrine on anyone, no Zionist I know or have ever heard of would do that. Be a Jew or not, I don’t care. Just don’t attack Jews or support those who do.
The Darfuris are not strong enough to defend themselves. But Israel is. And Israel will defend her citizens, Jews or otherwise, Zionist and non-Zionist against Arab attacks. And that’s just it. It has nothing to do with Zionism.
The Arab governments are slowly losing their empire. In northern Iraq, the Kurds are moving towards Mosul and are claiming back the land the Arabs stole. Sudan had to grant autonomy to the south.
All those who can defend themselves against the Arabs are doing it. But they are not doing it because of Zionism. They are doing it because they are sick and tired of being murdered by Arab nationalists and Islamic fundamentalists.
And you can blame Zionism for it (and thanks for that, I am sure Zionists WANT the credit for breaking Arab power over all the other people in the middle east outside Iran and Turkey), but you won’t have a point.
Everyone will eventually stand up and “Arab” will one day be the people living in Arabia and the Arab diaspora in non-Arab countries of Kurds, Assyrians, Berbers, Jews, Somalis, Dinka, Massalith, Nubians, Fur, and others but they won’t rule them any more and they won’t be allowed to murder them any more.
And all those countries will have official languages other than Arabic, perhaps with Arabic as a second language if there are many Arabs in the country who haven’t yet learned the native tongue. North-Africa will speak Tamazight, Kurdistan will speak Kurdish, Syria will speak Aramaic, and so on.
But as for Amru speaking for Zionists, I doubt that.
Remember my words, Amru, I, who am a Zionist, DON’T CARE whether an Arab or anybody in the world bows to my “doctrine”, whatever it might be. But at the same time I support and insist that Israel defend herself and her citizens against Arab attacks and attempts to expand Arab rule over the only independent middle-eastern people.
You can claim, Amru, that I support self-defence, and that all Zionists do. But if you claim that I or any Zionist want to impose my “doctrine” on others, you tell a lie.
Andrew you are already imposing your doctrine on the Palestinians and your neighbors so please save us the BS.
By existing?
What an interesting mind you have, Amru. Not an original one, granted, but so very interesting.
Why thank you Roman
It’s by existing on other peoples land, lets not divert this topic any further, you’ve already made your point about how “Interesting, Amusing, Obsessive and Not so Original” my thinking is
Sorry Drima, didn’t mean to divert your topic.
Why thank you Roman
It’s by existing on other peoples land ‘By Force’ and dominating them, lets not divert this topic any further, you’ve already made your point about how “Interesting, Amusing, Obsessive and Not so Original” my thinking is
Sorry Drima, didn’t mean to divert your topic.
It’s by existing on other peoples land
Yes, I forgot the “Eternal land of the Arab/Islamic/Thousand-Year-Old-Palestinian/Etc Nation” part.
‘By Force’
Well, yes. We won the war in 1948. And in 1967. And so on. Hence we’re still around to tell the tale, and you’re still around to embellish it.
Perhaps the original attempt to drive us into the sea ‘By Force’ wasn’t the best idea around? Maybe King Abdullah I of Jordan and Prime Minister Riad as-Solh of Jordan had the better ideas… that is to say, before a pan-Arabic Palestinian nationalist assassinated the first, and a pan-Arabic Syrian nationalist assassinated the second.
And so instead of signing peace during the Fifties, the two reluctant members of the Great Arabic Nation were shot into line.
So who is enforcing whose doctrine here?
and dominating them
Maybe if some people in this region weren’t so keen on killing other people in this region, painting them as evil buggers who are guilty of everything down to Giving Me A Headache In The Morning, things would have been a bit different.
I’m still trying to understand where the “doctrine” comes in, though. Then I get, I can readily guess what you had in mind - as I said, you’re more predictable than you realize.
As for my own opinion on the matter at hand…
The ICC is only as strong as the member states that signed up for its legal jurisdiction. Outside of these states… its influence is a matter of diplomatic pressure and little else. Which is where the UN comes in.
And fails. Miserably, utterly, and completely. The UN mainly creates problems, or makes existing problems worse - it doesn’t really solve anything beyond tea-break arguments between diplomats.
I don’t see much good coming out of this situation, but the alternatives? Doing nothing? Aren’t good enough.
It was always about “bad” or “worse”.
Darfur…
do you hear them
some of them say
first comes peace
some of them say
first come justice
Darfur…
what do you want?
peace, justice or something else them do not know?
“I’m still trying to understand where the “doctrine” comes in, though.”
I think it’s the survival thing you mentioned. I think he believes that Zionism dictates that Jews must try to survive and that that is somehow wrong.
As for who owns the land, the Arabs got it by force. As did the people who “owned” it before them. At the end the Turks took it, also by force; fair enough. More power to them. I totally recognise Turkish rule over Israel in the 19th century and before.
Then the British took it. That can happen. Happened to a lot of people.
But the Zionists kept buying the land, first under Turkish rule then under British rule. And I don’t see why the Zionists have to give it up just because the Arabs, who controlled the land for 200 years a thousand years ago now want it “back”.
I doubt that Amru can point out when exactly the Jews gave up their claim to the land so that it could become “Arab land”.
But perhaps the Arab invasion made the land “Arab land”? Well, in that case, consider the land re-invaded.
Hey Drima, here is a link to my article on the arrest warrant:
“Darfur: What Now?”
http://www.gather.com/viewArticle.jsp?articleId=281474977614123
I personally think that justice is very important for the victims, post-conflict reconciliation, and the future of Darfur and Sudan. However, the aim of the international community should be to first bring peace to Darfur and then punish the perpetrators of war crimes and crimes against humanity.
For example, in Bosnia, they first let them end the conflict and then they began arresting the war criminals. It’s still going on…
In Bosnia NATO, specifically Germany and the US, intervened.
In Bosnia NATO, specifically Germany and the US, intervened.
yeah, with such a good result !!!
UN has over stepped their boundaries. They over played their hand and have no more aces. Why immediately throw out the strongest possible action on their first play? Now there is nothing left for Bashir to fear.
Furthermore, Bashir has upheld most of their treaties and deals that his admin signed. So whose to say that if he leaves the next leader will even do that much. Most of the times in regime changes the power vacuum always brings the most ruthless imaginable leaders to the top. This could be worse for Sudan than having Bashir.
Salvo
The international community has been bringing peace to Darfur for the last dozen or so years. The results are distressing. The Muslim countries were putting their head in the sand claiming that there was no genocide because no arab people are killed, west was crying genocide but was outvoted by Russia and China who have oil interests in Sudan and everybody settled on crimes against humanity. In the meantime Sudanese blogers and Sudanese people blame everybody but themselves and Mr. Bashir. And they are thinking that if only Bashir were not condemned by the court everything would be better in Sudan - better for whom? For people in Darfur?
The only person here whose post acknowledge the Bashir guilt and in my opinion explains well who, apart from Bashir, is responsible for the situation is Amr, but when it comes to jooooos and Bush his mind stops and goes into hibernation.
I am waiting for somebody to say that it is all the fault of western arrogance, but wait, somebody already said so, didn’t they?
@ Benin
If his only one saving grace is that he upheld the treaties and deals you don’t want much in your president. Even that is not exactly true because he only fulfills contracts and treaties that line his pocket.
If we all be so scared of regime changes nothing will get done. And why thinking of regime change and not about change of president - for better? Perhaps there is no candidate. Anyway it seems that there is little possibility of other president. At least not for a couple of years. He already is a president for the last eleven years, couple of more will not make much difference, won’t it?
@ella #31,
“In the meantime Sudanese blogers and Sudanese people blame everybody but themselves and Mr. Bashir.”
ella,
you might wanna dig up the archives of this blog and other Sudanese ones before reaching such a preposterous conclusion, dear.
Cheers.
“yeah, with such a good result !!!”
What do you want? The genocide ended and Bosnia is peaceful now.
Drima
You are right. My bad. I should have witten:
You don’t blame everybody, some of you blame al Bashir, but better the devil you know. …. In the meantime some Sudanese bloggers and some Sudanese people blame the International Court for all future troubles Sudan is bound to go through. Because decision was not well thought of, according to some of them.
At the same time some Sudanese people are getting richer making deals with China (good for Sudanese, I say) and selling agricultural land to soon-to-be-hungry emirates and Saudi Arabia
- • UAE has farms in several Sudanese provinces, including a 40,000-feddan (1 feddan is 4,200 square metres) farm where wheat and corn are grown.
• Abu Dhabi announced plans in July 2008 to develop over 70,000 acres of farmland in Sudan.
• February 2009, Hail Agricultural Development Co., a farming company in northeast Saudi Arabia, said that it plans to invest $45 million in Sudan. It rented 22,830 acres of farmland in Northern Sudan
But in Darfur some/majority people are still on hand-outs from western NGOs.
******************
implications of this move by the ICC for all of Sudan will have negative effects. It will further isolate Sudan and fortify its pariah status in the international stage. The move will make it almost impossible for the President[ ak]
So what is next? We must all thank the ICC for the coup that is going to take place once again and cause the country to witness more turbulence. We must all also kiss the presidential elections goodbye if this coup ensues and kiss with it all our hopes and dreams of a better president and a better, more stable and more peaceful Sudan.[mimz]
it justice when an outsider intervenes in my country’s affairs? Whatever happened to democracy? ……………..The ICC has shown its lackadaisical disregard for concerns of erosion of North Sudanese unity with the semi-autonomous South, and completely ignored the pan-Arab solidarity with the Sudanese President to protect the sovereignty of Sudan-all in the name of elusive justice……………….I regret that the inappropriately overzealous Luis Ocampo and the ICC exploited the conflict in Darfur to flex their muscles [S.O.]
funny cartoons ww.zoulcolmx.blogspot.com
Really? The Sudanese people are getting richer? The people or the Arab elite of Sudan?
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