… I mean the Muslim and Arab hypocrisy in regards to the Darfur conflict. He succinctly says what I’ve been hammering across here for ages together with some active commenters.
~*~
Muslim minority: Hey, there are Muslims getting killed in Darfur.
Muslim majority: Really? By the evil Joooz?
Muslim minority: No, by other Muslims.
Muslim majority: …
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 47 comments… read them below or add one }
Fyi the article doesn’t cover anything new.
Check out Aljazeera.. a couple of months ago with regard to this subject.
I believe Aljazeera’s article is little nuanced and not too heavy on figer-pointing or rehashing of the old African locals vs Arab-government description of Darfur.
But thanks for bringing up the topic.
sorry here is link from aljazeera’s july article.
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/listeningpost/2008/07/20087111423350627.html
Really? You actually think his arguments are good? I don’t. For one, the article reeks of sensationalism. Secondly, he is obviously either deliberately ignorant, or vastly misinformed about a lot of information that flies under the radar of many of the news sources he obtained his information from. Any political situation that people generally know of is the tip of the ice berg, so the only time I would say someone “nailed it” is when they successfully dived into the situation and uncovered the hidden parts of the iceberg; in that, Heleta failed. Miserably.
I must clarify that I do agree that not enough has been done by many of the Arab countries about the situation, yet again, not enough has been done by any country—clearly evident by the lack of resolution today. Having said that, it must be noted that if there is any hope for positive developments in Darfur, Qatar exemplifies that hope. He also goes on to make the obviously flawed argument that there is little coverage in the Arab media except for AlJazeera and Alarabiya. Hmm, last I checked, the two were news giants in the Arab world, and that is where most Arabs get their news. He’s also either lying by omission, or oblivious to the fact that the Sudanese government itself has been immensely resistant to the coverage of Darfur within the Arab world. It has made that clear to other Arab leaders, and through the hindrance of Visa approval for Arab journalists. The only part that made sense in his article is a quote by another journalist, Rami Khouri, who does seem to have a good head on his shoulders when he said:
the silence in the Arab world “is not specific to Darfur or Sudan, but rather reflects a wider malaise that has long plagued the region: Arab governments tend to stay out of each other’s way when any one of them is accused of wrongdoing, and most Arab citizens have been numbed into helplessness in the face of public atrocities or criminal activity in their societies.”
When it comes to helping Darfur, Darfur has received generous monetary gifts from many Arab countries. Islam, as you already know, encourages philanthropy yet discourages publicizing what you have given. I know for a fact that huge sums of money have been given by wealthy private donors who come from Gulf countries. Another aspect against publicizing such donations is avoidance of political entanglement. I would take sincere donations over misguided donations (a la “Slave Redemption” days.) So on the monetary aid issue, he is well misinformed.
What bothers me the most is twofold: he is extremely biased (his title screams bias, “hypocrisy”?? I mean, isn’t “honest politics” an oxymoron?), and he gathered most of his information from secondary sources. Two factors that make his article essentially “weak sauce.” Whatever he was talking about was more of the same. It was more of what people want to hear to facilitate pointing fingers. Like the saying goes, “you point one finger and three point back at you.” In this case, I think 200,000 people’s fingers are pointing at us, the Sudanese people. We have been shamefully quiet about the situation. Sudanese people living in Sudan, and the Sudanese Diaspora needs to be doing more, and by more I mean more political activism instead of pointing fingers at Arab countries.
The situation is indubitably complex. I’d like to read an article about the situation from someone that has more insightful knowledge, instead of a rudimentary and biased assessment of the situation. The minute someone writes an article that encourages finger pointing at some, and the victimization of others, the minute I know they’ve got nothing good to say.
The Arab world has been quiet about Arabs killing Kurds and Arabs trying to kill Jews too. And when Iraq fought Iran, the Arabs didn’t complain either.
The Massaleit (Darfurians) are simply another non-Arab minority in the Arab world.
I don’t think Islam and being Muslims comes into this at all. It’s all about nationalism.
I still have no idea why Arabs think of themselves as some kind of unit or “people”…Mostly they have pretty much fought each other throughout their history…
But in any case…the only things that Arabs get united and excited about his stuff like getting fired up about Palestinians to the point of utter obession…THAT they are made about…but not 200,000 Darfuians…that is not a big issue. And they can get pretty upset about whatever the USA is doing…like unequal policy…Huh? Treat those that dispise you and hate your values, burn your flag, have attacked you the same as friends…who does that?
It is sheer hate and sheer hypcrosy…it is blindness and self-delusion…It is a lie perpetuated by their kings and dictators some the dumb among them can be pissed off about something and be distracted from their own miserable governments.
I don’t see it as one bit being nationalism…I don’t agree with AB this time around
Jonah, true, but thought it deserved a link. Darfur got lost in the midst of US election fever.
Mangosteen, thanks for that long comment.
You do bring up numerous good points and I love the fact that you don’t pursue a simplistic approach, but you still seem to understate the “hypocrisy” factor.
From my personal experience and conversations with people, Darfur isn’t a major issue. It’s either a Zionist conspiracy or something that isn’t as worthy of attention as Iraq or Palestine for example.
Darfur HAS indeed received coverage in the Arab media but nowhere close to the frequent and virtually daily coverage Palestine and Iraq get. Rami Khouri explains the reasons behind that wonderfully.
But then again, this isn’t just about the media but peoples’ attitudes, and how too many of us have been brainwashed by our state-controlled biased media which loves to point the finger at our sensationalized enemies (aka the CrUSAders and the Joooz).
I think Andrew has a point too. Within the context of the Arab world, I think nationalism is the bigger factor.
Palestine has always been a central core issue within Arab nationalism. Darfur isn’t. So it shouldn’t surprise us that the former stirs up peoples’ passions immensely while the latter hardly.
“Sudanese people living in Sudan, and the Sudanese Diaspora needs to be doing more, and by more I mean more political activism instead of pointing fingers”
Right on. !00% with you on that one. And here’s to hoping that Qatar does play a positive role.
Btw, have you heard about what UK-based, Sudanese billionaire, Mo Ibrahim is trying to do with his foundation?
He’s trying to get all of Darfur’s rebel factions to unite behind one vision. Very noble effort. Here’s to hoping that goes well too.
Drima…
You spell hipocrisy better than me…I just can’t get it right…
We have been around on this before…
Was the Arab world up in arms when
One million Muslims died in the Iran-Iraq war?
When Yemens where using poison gas on each other?
When Syria blasted 20,000 of their own people in what, two weeks?
When Algerians slaughter Algerians?
When Russians slaughtered Checyens?
When Russian had millions of Muslims in their ownership from 1945 until Ronnie Regan got their asses free? (Not only were they not fighting for the “stans” brothers, they were licking Russian boots to get weapons to fight the Zionist enitity that was SO damn dangerous)
Did they cry out in the early days of horror in Darfur?
When the Lebanon went in Palestinian camps recently and blasted away?
When the Kurds were being slaughtered?
Anybody get mad when Egypt erased a good part of the Nubian lands for their damn damn?
NO..and no and no and no and no…
But Israel…ah now There truly is THE enemy…
Nope…not one drop of hypocrisy…
I and did not touch on issues of rights, torture, abuse of women, abuse of foreign workers, abuse of children…
But let’s burn some Israeli flags and feel good about ourselves…
Brainwashed, self-deluded hypocritical, scapegoating and just plain shameful.
Crusaders? Who the hell attacked Europe BEFORE the Crusades all the way to the gates of Vienna? The Jews? Were there not Arab Crusaders as well? That was OK?
This particular debate…oh I have heard it for 40 years now…Only recently do I hear some increased voices of self-examination and self-criticism…
Hey, Drima, I think this person that goes by the alias “Mangosteen” really Nailed it!
I know your dialogue format with “Majority Muslim” is a comic way of sharing your view.. but I am not sure most “Majority” Muslim feel that way..
As you said yourself, “From my personal experience and conversations with people, Darfur isn’t a major issue. It’s either a Zionist conspiracy or something that isn’t as worthy of attention as Iraq or Palestine for example.”, I am no sure who the people you are having “conversation” with you.. and Heleta article is mediocre reply to those people.
I talked to 3 Sudanese friends of mine: one I work with and 2 from college… None of them expressed any Zionist conspiracy. More in the the line of an African country with major leadership deficiency…
But that is only three people- not enough to generalize about the whole Muslim community.
Jonaho84– my sentiments exactly! I think only a minuscule minority ever jumped on the “Zionist conspiracy” bandwagon.
Drima– Yes,I do know Mo Ibrahim and greatly admire him. Sorry about my long comment. I actually have more to say about the subject, but I believe I’ll address that in my blog in the near future.
The Economist has an article about Sudan if you are interested: A gleam among the ruins
The Sudanese Thinker, I wouldn’t say that I “nail Darfur” with this article. That was never my intent. I just wanted to discuss what I believe is a very important issue. I’m a bit tired of everyone pointing fingers on the Western world and expecting them to do something about Darfur (I’ve done it myself in many instances).
What about the Arab and Muslim world? Where were they since 2003? They fully supported the Sudanese government and its actions. The Arab League never had an urgent meeting to discuss the situation in Darfur. They had one recently when the ICC filed charges against Bashir.
Mangosteen, you question the sources I consulted in writing this article. Well, I at least used outside sources. You didn’t in your comments. You say “When it comes to helping Darfur, Darfur has received generous monetary gifts from many Arab countries.” Which countries? How much? Why don’t you support your claims with a source?
jonaho84, I never said that the Sudanese themselves talk about the Zionist-American conspiracy, but some Arab media.
Savo– I am not using sources because I was “commenting” not authoring an article. When I do write an a proper response to your article on my blog, you’ll be the first to be notified, and it will include proper sources.
Regarding the monetary gifts, I already discussed why the amounts were not publicly disclosed.
Also, you mentioned that your intolerance of finger pointing at the western world is why you wrote your article. Now you’re pointing fingers at the Arab world. Is that a good approach? That was mainly what I found rather bothersome about your article.
Mangosteen, you say: “Also, you mentioned that your intolerance of finger pointing at the western world is why you wrote your article. Now you’re pointing fingers at the Arab world. Is that a good approach? That was mainly what I found rather bothersome about your article.”
As I understand you, we shouldn’t point fingers at the wrongs in the world. We should just let it go? Is this what you are saying?
‘I don’t think Islam and being Muslims comes into this at all. It’s all about nationalism.’
See, this is where the hypocrisy really comes into play.
Islam is supposed to overide any ‘nationalism’ so how is it possible for Muslims to fight over nationalistic things?
Truth be told. I don’t think that ‘Islam’ or ‘Muslims’ exist in reality.
Lynn…why do you say they don’t exist? As a united unit or what? I don’t understand…
From everything that I have heard, read and yes, from speaking directly to Darfur refugees…the answer is the Arabs, as a “unit” did NOTHING…
Do they ask themselves the questions I pose…More Muslim died in the first year of the Darfur slaugther or the Iran-Iraq war than have in the entire history of Arab-Israel conflict…
Scapegoating, diverting the population, hate and humiliation and a bizarre obsession…
Tell me…I am curious what people think…If the “Arabs” were victorious tomorrow and killed all the Jews in Israel…for the majority of the Muslim world…what would be different? What? A few days of parties and shooting AK-47’s in the air and yelling “ku lu lu lu”…Then what? Your “pride” as a people would suddenly be multiplied?
Even Khuri who Drima refers us to. I looked at his stuff…Even he talks about the “Israel-Palestinian and the Arab-Israeli conflict” as THE problem? Huh? Tell that to some Fur or Maasaliet.
I wan to understand this…I really do…The Muslim world is RIFT with enormous issues, wars, tribal conflict, waste of enormous wealth, repression, dictatorship, lack of freedom, lack of access to information…but the “Arab-Israeli” conflict is THE issue…I want to SCREAM!!!
Even Iran jumps on the bandwagon…Since BIBILICAL times until the Khomeni…the Jews and Iranians never had a hassle…and then suddenly monkeyface is jumping up and threatening Israel…the new hero of the Muslim people…Where did THAT come from? Iran is the savior of the Palestinian people? The leader of the ARAB nation? Huh? What?
Help me understand this.
“Was the Arab world up in arms when
One million Muslims died in the Iran-Iraq war?”
To be fair, yes, they were. Saddam was widely supported in the Arab world for his genocidal attack on Iran.
“Within the context of the Arab world, I think nationalism is the bigger factor.”
I think so. They call it Islam, but it is nationalism. Islam and the Sunni-Shia divide only come into it when the battles are between Arabs.
“As I understand you, we shouldn’t point fingers at the wrongs in the world. We should just let it go? Is this what you are saying?”
Savo– The cold hard truth is, 200,000 have already died. The died because nobody helped. The Western world didn’t do it, neither did Israel, nor the Arab World. Let’s not lament over who didn’t help, because at the end of the day, the entire world failed Darfur.
If you are adamant about finger pointing then blame the Sudanese Government and people. Why?
1) The government is fully responsible.
2) NCP is purposely impeding the Arab media’s coverage.
3) There is no notable public outrage over Darfur from the Sudanese people. Palestinians and Lebanese have always organized protests and got Aljazeera/Alarabiya/MBC’s attention. Sudanese people? Not so much. Had the Sudanese people ardently and publicly protested the Darfur situation,and there was still not enough attention from the Arab World/Media, then your article would be fitting, but that’s not the case. Take it from me, a Sudanese girl, we’re the ones to blame.
Also, when the Darfur conflict reaches resolution through the help of the Arab world, namely Qatar, be sure to write an article about that.
That’s my $0.02
Savo, I understand what you are saying but it seems your article direct to all the Arab or Muslim world and not “some media” as you state above.
Did you read the Al Jazeera article listed above?
http://english.aljazeera.net/programmes/listeningpost/2008/07/20087111423350627.html
Al Jazeera is big in the Arab world.
Please correct me if I am wrong but I assume you read the article above. There are some similarities between you article and the Al Jazeera Salah Khadr’s from July 2008.
For example in Khadr’s article, paragraph 6, it states the following:
“Lawrence Pintak, a journalist and Arab media expert, says the problem with Darfur when it comes to the Arab media is that it does not fit the template of Arabs being the victims and other people the aggressors.”
In your article paragraph 7, it states the following:
According to Lawrence Pintak, a journalist and Arab media expert, the Darfur conflict is not covered by the Arab media as “it does not fit the template of Arabs being the victims and other people the aggressors.”
I will again assume you talked Lawrence Pintak since you didn’t give credit to other sources for Pintak’s statement.
Anyway, I digress. Thanks Savo and Drima for bringing the issue to light…
Mangosteen I look forward to your link and article on the issue…
And hopeful the people of Darfur find some peace and justice- I wish the AU could play a stronger role. I am more for an African solution to an African problem.
…Help me understand this…
Howie, I cannot help you because I don’t understand that Jew-hating craze either, but I want to say that I feel your distress and I’m sorry this is happening, not only among Arabs who are easily brainwashed, but also among the so-called liberal Western intellectuals. The French call it “l’esprit de temps” (the mood of the era) when a certain attitude prevails without reason or logic. Again, I understand your frustration -whether it helps or not.
Eva…
You mean you are not worried I am coming up to Canada to get you?
‘The Muslim world is RIFT with enormous issues, wars, tribal conflict, waste of enormous wealth, repression, dictatorship, lack of freedom, lack of access to information’
That’s what I mean when I say that Islam doesn’t exist. It doesn’t exist as the self proclaimed ‘muslims’ describe it. Even the ones that seem all nice and peaceful seem to be able to quite easily defend the actions of other ‘muslims’ that we might recognise as terrorists.
You want to talk about expoding heads? What about the Muslims who live in the coastal towns in Somalia who won’t deal with usury but happily cheer and welcome and trade with the pirates who come ashore with their ransom money? It’s all the hypocrisy that makes my head explode. If ever there was a people that needing wiping off a map…Dang, it makes me sick that I could feel that way.
Instead of arguing about many and again many of the comments here who have a very over-simplistic good-or-evil approach to almost everything in the Arab World, i will try to explain what i felt when first confronted with the Darfur conflict, and what i heard among the Arab exile community here in Denmark.
When i first heard it, it was presented to me by the danish media coverage at that time, i got the feeling that we were talking about a conspiracy here. Not in the sense that it was something that the zionists came up with, in the sense that this was probably just a local tribal conflict about some water or crops which the government decided to involve themselves in.
It was not because that the danish media portrayed it like this, if fact it was the quite opposite: The way they portrayed things, it was an army of cruel, evil arabs (muslims) who had nothing to do with their lives than killing black (christian?) africans. A conflict based entirely of racism. Sounded a little simplistic to me… I think that i silently, without giving it too much thought, just concluded that the danish media once simplified things and made a big deal about nothing, like a storm in a cup of water, as people in Denmark say.
It was my experience back then that most arabs considered it the same way: A local crisis, famine and drought, some mad warlords, and a government who is trying to involve themselves - and the european media trying to blame it on the Arabs by ascribing them a lot greater role in the show that then really had.
While i do admit that this method of thinking is wrong - WAY wrong and could be seen as a mockery of the thousands of dead dafurians who i was informed about by the media - i’ll have to explain why we arabs in the exile typically interpret everything that sounds anti-arab like that.
In recent years, the media and the danish politicians have hardened their tone against arabs and muslims, resulting in tons of newspaper articles and hours of tv-coverage that misinforms badly about Islam and Arabs. I will provide some examples on this misinformation.
1. In an Jyllands-Posten (yep, the guys with the cartoons) article not long ago, the journalist explained how temporary marriages (Mot’ah) are becoming a social ill in the Middle East, and while they say that this practice is “especially for the shiamuslims”, they cite sunni-muslim scholars as permitting this as well - thus making it a universally accepted muslim practice. However, what these sunni-muslim preachers were permitting was the Misyar (travellers) marriage, which - when referred to by the scholars - is an entirely different matter. (Popular usage of the two are similar, i admit, but thats another discussion).
2. During the danish election race, a danish politician from the government party (Venstre) provided the people with an example of muslim censoring of the freedom of speech: A gang of muslim men had assaulted a young, danish, non-muslim girl!! Plain lies. She was assaulted by fellow non-muslim girls on her own age, and it had nothing to do with freedom of expression whatsoever.
I’m not saying that this is a valid excuse for categorically rejecting everything anti-arabs, but it has a kind of influence on our minds…. And when our own, Arab newspapers actually portray the conflict as nothing, you really get the notion that it is nothing but a local conflict that the europeans somehow placed the Arabs as a villain in.
It was simply not a matter that we gave much importance to - a blurred, complex matter, that we really do not know much about - and who is maybe after all just a small, local conflict. Who should we be rioting about that instead of the real wars in Iraq, Chechenia and Palestine, where the picture is clear and where the bad guys is known?
But thanks to God, i got wiser. When i engaged in online dialogues with europeans, jews and others, they often referred me to this particular conflict, forced me to read and learn more about it. I am happy i did so, for now i know how i might have mocked the thousands of darfurians (mainly muslims by the way - i did’nt get that from the initial danish coverage!?) which suffer from an oppression that i on some level denied or did not give much importance to. I feel very sorry for that now, and i wish that more arabs got to know the reality of the Darfur crisis from sources they can trust, and that the media would stop over-simplify the conflict as being bad, evil arab supremacists (like the white slave owner, only dressed in typical Gulf garments) slaugheting down the pure, oppressed black Africans (BLACK africans who are NOT arabs… christians?)..
And i hope this will help. I know that much arabs suffer from dictatorship, and view the internal problems as something they can deal with… hey, we’re suffering by our own leaders too… while the external threats, from Russia, Israel and USA is quite different… more dangerous, you know… at least these guys are our own muslim and arab… you know….
If only we had the courage to tell that to the Darfurian father who are watching his whole family getting killed.
Ahmad…
It really does not help answer my questions…not at all…
It might answer how some Arabs in Denmark got the wrong idea about what was happening in Darfur…but says nothing about my other questions…
Of course I look at this from a Jewish/American perspective (married to an Israeli with family there)…so I know I am high on the “to be hated” list. But I have watched this, as I said, since 1970 when I used to hear Arab guys, here on student visas, saying the worse kinds of things about us…rich rich rich, little Arab boys fucking American girls and talking about how corrupt and ugly the Jews and Israelis and Americans are…saying things like “we have to finish what Hitler didn’t”. I have observed these lunatic comments and reactions and again…OK…go ahead and hate us a bit…but some Muslim guy in Bangledesh gets all excited about Palestinians? Why? His country is a NIGHTMARE…the Muslim world is in such a mess and Muslims primarily hurt, abuse, kill, torture, Muslims but why SO MUCH excitement about Palestinians…This is my question. Do you not see an utterly gross distortion…Do you not see an element of manipulation and scapegoating here?
“Who should we be rioting about that instead of the real wars in Iraq, Chechenia and Palestine, where the picture is clear and where the bad guys is known?”
And I don’t accept that statement…I don’t think it is so clear…especially not in Iraq and Israeli…not at all so clear…Was Saddam a good guy and the Americans the bad? Where the Kurds the bad guys…the Shia, Iran, the Sunni, Al-Queada?
Ahmed…I have read you several times before and frankly…I admire you…I don’t typically agree with you…but you mind and thinking are quite admirable…but on this subject…really think you are almost as blind as the rest of the grand screaming crowd.
Howie, you got me wrong. Please, read it again with the following in your mind: I was just trying to explain what i felt, and what i believe that the people felt. I was not trying to answer any question in particular, just generally trying to explain why people think what they think, based on my own experience.
Like i said, i’ve changed my mind on Darfur.
I admit that thinking this way might be wrong, because:
“I know that much arabs suffer from dictatorship, and view the internal problems as something they can deal with… hey, we’re suffering by our own leaders too… while the external threats, from Russia, Israel and USA is quite different… more dangerous, you know… at least these guys are our own muslim and arab… you know….
If only we had the courage to tell that to the Darfurian father who are watching his whole family getting killed.”
With that, i mean that the mentality that prevails among most arabs on this point, would not matter to a darfurian father who lost his family in this war.
That being said, i will try to answer your question which is indeed a good one, as soon as i’ve beaten this flu… Its a tough one.
Ahmad…
I have bad news for you…
You don’t have the flu…The Israeli’s and the Americans have invented a viral weapon that is smart enough to only infect Arabs…It has been introduced to food and water systems throughout the world…After the initial illness, all victims are left with a lifetime and untreatable overwhelming urge for; humos, bad Egyptian movies and yelling “ku…lu, lu, lu”.
Unfortunately…they forgot that there are millions of Arabs who are Christians and/or Jews(I am married to one)…so I now suffer along as a lifetime nurse and victim of unintentional outcome.
Your points are very well taken and I stand corrected and as I noted:
“Ahmed…I have read you several times before and frankly…I admire you…I don’t typically agree with you…but your mind and thinking are quite admirable”
I do apologize for my part in the humos thing
I should add…
I personally never saw the Darfur thing as a racial issue…maybe on a more local personal level for some guys it is…but to me…it was always mostly about; power, control, money, revenge, intimidation…
Even the Christians (south) vs. Muslims…I am sure religion was an aspect…but not THE aspect…
Money, power, control, revenge, ego and yes hate and ideology…it usually is a complex mix that drives this major problems…just like it is often a complex of issues that drives even the most “micro” of relationship problems.
Like the “Soccer War” in Central America…that was not a war over a soccer game…it was a complex issue of land, immigration, money and yes…there was nationalism and the classic neighbor hate.
Ahmad,
I hope you get well soon.
So, you’ve changed your mind about the Darfur issue but I hope that you realize that the most important thing is to NOT automatically dismiss a bit of news just because it appears to be anti- something that you like. You would think others ignorant if they were to say that they did the same would you not?
I too am eagerly awaiting your response to Howie’s questions.
I agree with Howie when he says:
but to me…it was always mostly about; power, control, money, revenge, intimidation…
That’s how I always saw it too. But their seems to be a heirarchy of hate with the Jews on top and the fist to blame when things go bad. Then, if there are no Jews just go for any non-muslims that might be around and then, when there are none but Muslims left you gun for the darkies. Then I guess you could separate by sects within Islam and that could keep you going for a good bit. It’s just so depressing.
Well, I’m impressed with Ahmad. He is very sincere and able to change his mind if facts beat his habitual thinking. That is a rare characteristic in the Arab/muslim world and very much worth a praise. I’m speaking out of experience. After 9/11, I spent 14 months on Islam on Line trying to discuss with muslims. Only a handful of them paid attention to facts, the rest of them were heavily teflon-coated.
Howie, I think you forgot to blame our media. The exaggerated amount of coverage assigned to the israeli-palestinian conflict is their fault. How often do we hear about what’s happening in South Asia, where Buddhists and Christians are regularly slaughtered by islamic militants? The brutality in south Thailand, Malaysia or the Phillipines, or indeed everywhere where Islam collides with other faiths is rarely featured on the evening news.
Eva…
There is a key point you are making that deserves expanding…
There is enormous freedom of press in Israel and media is there from all over the world…including al Jazeera…
IF media were allowed freely to wander about Iran, Saudia, Darfur, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Western China, Tibet, believe me….there would be fewer headlines about the great Israeli-Arab conflict….
Yet…Israel and Jews have, historically, drawn far more concern, atttention and obesession then our tiny size and numbers would warrant. THAT one I would like to figure out…13 million Jews in the entire world and Israel is the size of Rhode freaking Island…yet we draw the ire of Pope’s, Hitlers, Stalins, Khomeni’s, Crusaders, Ahmenadinijad’s, Henry Ford’s and on and on and on and on and on…
I would Ahemd’s or anybody’s opinion on that as well, because I can’t figure it out…
Oh…and if anybody wants to take on the “why the Jew focus” please save me the international secret world control stuff…My dad hung draperies…most of my uncles were house painters, my mom grew up in poverty…my wife was born in a tent…Much of Orthodox Jewry lives off of donations and then have like 10 kids…
Yes there are some very rich and influential Jews…and there are lots of poor Jews, middle class, upper middle class and, by-the-way…we are not a homogenous unit…We are Republicans, Democrats, liberals, Leftists, Communists, Libertarians and we hardly ever can agree on anything…
So yeh…go figure…
Ahmad al-Safawi
Yes, I’m danish. Fun the way danes can communicate via a sudanese blog. We probably would not meet IRL.
It might not be interesting for other readers, if we discuss specific danish stuff. But I would like to comment on this:
“It was not because that the danish media portrayed it like this, if fact it was the quite opposite: The way they portrayed things, it was an army of cruel, evil arabs (muslims) who had nothing to do with their lives than killing black (christian?) africans. A conflict based entirely of racism. “
and
“ the european media trying to blame it on the Arabs by ascribing them a lot greater role in the show that then really had”.
I do not recognize the muslim vs. christian theme from my experience with mainstream danish media. I think the general theme is humanitarian crises. Often combined with a local angle like an interview with a danish aidworker. Now the focus is shifting towards DR Conge. DR Congo is also described as a complex political situation with a humanitarian crisis. If religion pops up it’s typically a short piece of background information. A bit like when religion is mentioned in the article in Economist (Nobodys link: A gleam among the ruins ).
Not everything is about religion.
Peter: I KNEW it
No, i did not say that they mentioned anything about Muslims versus Christians, but you can get that notion when they keep mentioning the “Arab versus African”-thing. Arab vs. African usually meant muslims vs. christians during the sudanese civil war. I hope you understand what i am trying to say.
Eva, Lynn and Howie:
Thanks, guys. But it seems like i do not need to answer anything now, Howie has already admitted that the jews have poisoned the whole arab population. Do you still wonder why we are a bit suspicious about those guys…??
Being serious now, i will try to answer the question the best i can. Please note that when i mention certain disputed issues as facts in the following, i am doing so because the people referred to views this as facts, not because i necessarily hold the same view.
Why do a guy from Bangladesh get all upset about Israel when his own country is a mess?
1. In a way, the creation of Israel is a classic example of western imperialism. The arabs are manipulated into helping them fighting the turks, then their land is given to the jews, and then the british government are playing a both the jews and the arabs… The western world opressing on the muslims is something that most of them can adhere to - also in Bangladesh, who was also colonized by the british once. The mere root of this problem is such a classic one that it somehow takes precence over other similar cases who seem more complex and less simple - i mean, it is THE example!
2. The jews entered the land and organized gangs who terrorized the local population to an extent that amounts to genocide. That is far more serious than what most muslims experienced.
3. Then there is the Jerusalem-factor. Jerusalem IS A HOLY CITY to muslims. It was the first prayer direction - that means that in Makkah, the muslims prayed while facing Jerusalem, not Makkah. The great Prophet and King, our Master Sulaiman (pbuh) who ruled both people and jinn and was given miracles that no one has ever seen before, was seated there. Palestine is the home to a great number of Islamic prophets. Muhammad (pbuh) met the previous prophets there and ascended to the heaven from there. The Al-Aqsa mosque (not the Dome of the Rock!), mentioned in the Quran, are located there. Yes, indeed, Jerusalem IS a holy site to muslims. And the whole drama - the betrayal by the british and the jewish terror on the muslim population - taking place right there, in Jerusalem, Al-Qods (the Holy), adds a special, religious dimension to the situation.
I repeart that the above is not necessarily what i believe is facts, but what i think from my experience such a bangladeshi man would believe as facts.
Then, here is my conclusion to the above mentioned points:
Most muslim nations in the world has a recent history of oppression. The Sham has the crusades then the french colonization. Egypt has the french and british domination that severely oppressed everybody but the turkish elite. Algeria has the french colonization and their brutal war for independence and so forth. Somehow, we can all relate to the Palestinians, and we initally saw the palestinian struggle as another war for arab and muslim independence, just like the Egyptian revolution and the Algerian war for independence…
And the defeats we suffered only stenghtens these feelings of ours, and adds to the picture. We can relate to the palestinian cause.
But WHY - WHY do a bangladeshi, who is not egyptian like me (we actually FOUGHT Israel with our hands, unlike certain others), and whose country is in a even bigger mess than mine?
I believe that is a psychological matter, that i hope that Howie with his expertice in this field can help us understand better. Combine the simple “facts” mentioned before with the Jerusalem factor, and you have a muslim case that is easy and that everybody can relate to. A classic black and white story about a pure, oppressed group being opressed in their holy site, being opressed by a brutal, evil enemy… That can make you forget the complex situation in your country and its politics. You see, most (in fact all) conflicts in the world are complicated and delicate matters… And the political situation in your own country is a mess, a very complex mess that you cannot really grasp.
But it all makes sense when there is a bigger and simpler cause - the Palestinian cause, which involves all muslims… right? Like a rope one holds on to… i need words… help me here Howie, i’m sure that you somehow understand what i’m trying to say here.
That is what i believe. I might be wrong, but take it as qualified guess-work from an egyptian who grew up in the 60’s and 70’s climate of confrontations with Israel. I used to hold similar, quite rigid opinions with regards to Israel, but learned that most of what i was told and what i believed was of a very dobious authenticity, which made me reconsider my own stand and opinion with regards to Israel.
After that period, i maintain a strong support for the Palestinian cause, but i’m thinking in a far less ideological manner now - wiping Israel of the map simply aint going to happen, and after all, cant we learn something from these jewish guys? Still i have no propose on how to solve the conflict, but at least i want to solve it now, not just wipe Israel off the map… thats erasing the problem, not solving it.
And indeed, what the Palestinians are suffering is NOTHING compared to the Chechens and the Uyghurs of Western China. NO DOUBT!!
“So, you’ve changed your mind about the Darfur issue but I hope that you realize that the most important thing is to NOT automatically dismiss a bit of news just because it appears to be anti- something that you like. You would think others ignorant if they were to say that they did the same would you not? ”
- Yes, but thats not exactly what i did. What i did was wrong, but it was not like i rejected it because it was “anti- something i like”, but because that i so often hear manipulations that are anti-arab that i initially doubted it. But yes, it was wrong, and it is a mockery of the Darfurians, and i indeed feel guilty for those thoughts
Also, i want to add that if one wish to mention how muslims terrorize christians, i do not believe the Phillipines to be a good example…. how often do you hear about what the muslims in Asia are enduring? we all really just hear one side, dont we?
Tipping my hat to Peter and Ahmad. YES, Danish MSM are painting a simplistic picture of the Darfurian conflict. What can you expect? It’s very far away.
Ahmed…
I appreciate your response and, yes…I am not going to “shoot the messenger”. I realize you do not accept some of these explanations as your own interpretation of history.
Once again…I respect not only your intelligence, but your desire to try to be fair and to kind TRUTH. To not simplify the grandly complex.
Explaining all this psychologically…not religiously or politically? Oy vey…I few thoughts…
Take a disturbed family…Often times you will find yourself treating what we call “the labeled child” or “labeled person”…the LP. You will hear the entire family focus on this LP…like he is under a microscope…all the bad the things, what an enormous problem he is and how he messes up the family.
Well…if you pay careful attention…you find out that the entire family has ENORMOUS issues; Mom and Dad hate each other, there is alcoholism, infidelity, gambling, whatever. But one way the family seems to hold itself together is to become obsessed with the LP.
Now they LP is likely no angel…likely there is bad behavior, though much of it is in response to the LP’s perception of what is going on in the family and adapting or MAL-adapting to that perception or reality.
Some of these families isolate themselves…often they become deeply involved in a church and sometimes that church is a fringe system that further encourages isolation, ignoring other input and not connecting to sources outside of the church. That church tends to hold tenets that further support this families’ view of the world outside as threatening, dangerous, potentially disrupting what they hold as worthwhile. And also maybe finding out their secrets.
That is the best I can do in terms of a psychological explanation without writing a book on the topic.
Oh…and whoever is reading this, today is Thanksgiving in the USA. It has been my tradition for about 25 years to call or write various people that I owe thanks to. Therefore:
I would like to thank Drima and others who visit this site, those that visit with humor and yet a sincerity about erasing sterotypes and myths and who care about this so terribly fragile world. People who want to understand, who will struggle with, as Ahmed notes, and as Drima always notes, the utter complexity of issues that many try to write of with slogans and jingles.
We often speak here about THE issues in life. I have learned, laughed, screamed at my monitor screen, become disgusted, become thrilled.
Thank you all. I wish you the best of God’s blessings. Happiness, peace, friendship and good humos.
As Dr. Martin Luther King put it…”I have seen the mountain and I looked over the mountain” and saw the Promised Land (a better time). “I may not get there with you”…but…
Happy Thanksgiving…which by-the-way…is a non-denominational national holiday…
I do have to add…with the backdrop of the terror attack in India…and yes I understand this certainly does not represent all Muslims…
This was not aimed at ISRAEL…it was aimed primarily at JEWS…the Chabad center in the area…a religious center…and then secondarily Brits, Indians, Israelis and Americans…
To villianize Israel and Jews…who are in a very specific REGIONAL conflict…is a shame, a sham and puts a dark black cloud over any Muslim who does not stand up screaming very clearly that this is utterly inexcusable evil.
Thanks for your response Ahmad. I hope that you will have the ability to correct those who you see doing the same as you used to do.
Howie, I like your Thanksgiving tradition. I’ll have to start doing that myself.
I too wish to thank everyone here and wish y’all a Happy Thanksgiving!
Thank you for your kind words, my friend Howie.
Indeed what you wrote about the LP is interresting. Perhaps we are dealing with something here that can be not identical, but related to the problem here.
No doubt that in the muslim world, the Israeli-Arab conflict is an issue. But i cannot see why it is THE issue, except what i called the Jerusalem-factor… But hey, at some point in this conflict, Jerusalem was not entirely seized by the Israelis, and it still was an issue back then??
Look at the discrimination of Iran towards Sunni Muslims. Indeed, Sunni Islam face much better conditions in Israel than they do in Iran, which is also noted by some famous iranian sunni clerics. I was in Egypt recently, and people seemed in a state of extacy (hope i spelled that right?) praising the “heroic” Iran, and i had a very hard time arguing against this. But nobody ever pays attention to this… Which i cannot understand, because Iran seems to pose a greater danger towards the Arab nation than Israel does at the moment. Thats some of my personal thoughts on the issue. But guys, dont start your party yet - i am still very critical towards the methods used by the state of Israel in a large number of subjects.
I like your thanksgiving tradition
Really nice. Lets all try to grasp the complexity of the issues instead of just making them into the angel versus the devil. Been there 
With regards to this attack in India, my sympathy goes out to everyone who lost someone they loved and cared about, and my condemnations go out to everyone who have sympathy towards these cowardly attacks. We suffer from these people in the Arab world too.
Like the people killed was in any way involved in the Kashmir or the Palestinian conflict.
If any muslim should read this and have sympathy towards their cause, i would ask:
What good does these attacks? Do they help you defeat your enemy? Does it ease prosecution of muslims in India?
Such actions are inhumane and evil, and besides forbidden and punishable in the Islamic sharia, not to mention the punishment in the afterlife!
Ahmed…
There are several points I want to address…but let me touch on just one or two…
ISRAELI’S don’t support a good deal of what their government does…just like there is a settler movement…there is large Peace Now movement, newspapers like “ha’artez”, Betselem and every moderate and extreme attitude that you can think of. There are Israeli’s married to Palestinians…
What the Israeli government and army does is an enormous, central and DAILY and emotional..PUBLIC and ON-GOING debate…The same would be true in much of the Muslim world only such behavior is often repressed…sometimes brutally so…
I don’t agree with much of what the Israeli government does…but I don’t agree with what much of the Arab world’s governments do a whole lot more strongly.
Oy vey…yes the colonialism issue…Like Muslim’s themselves where not some of the biggest Crusaders and colonialists of all time? In this vain…I have also wondered why there was never a PLO when Turkey colonized, repressed and raped that region for 400 years? Weren’t the Palestinians mad about that…Why did Egypt come to the rescue in 48, 67 and 73…not to mention all the years of terror attacks from the south…yet did seem to care much about Palestinians under Turks or Brits? I have a big problem with that one…
But the Israeli government…they are not terrible popular with anybody lately…especially with Israelis.
Iran…now don’t get me started…They have a history of doing fine with Jews and HATING Arabs!!! Now they are the hero of the Arab world…because Ahmenadinajad sticks his tongue out at the USA and Israel (but licks Chinese boots who utterly repress a huge Muslim population). That one just makes me MAJNUN!!! HELP!!!
In terms of Arabs in Israel…Look I LIVED there…I went to school with Arabs…even Palestinians…I worked in Arab villages…Thank you very much man but many of these dudes own VILLAS…while Israeli’s 99% live in apartments…Many have thriving businesses…they can walk freely around main Jewish populations with NO FEAR…I have been there…years and years and saw it, did business with them…I bear witness that many Arabs living in Israel do just very well thank you…
But can a Jew walk freely through Gaza? Even parts of E. Jerusalem…NOPE…and many have been stoned, jumped, and some literally ripped to pieces.
So…yes there are many shades here…
I see an issue of blinded hate…and you know…our issue is not hate…ask any of the Israelis here and you don’t here a whole lot of hate talk towards Arabs…some…but minimal…mostly you here deep deep deep distrust..and distrust is way too gentle of a word. But do THEY hate us?
Absolutely without any doubt. Even those that are light years away from the conflict.
“Oy vey…yes the colonialism issue…Like Muslim’s themselves where not some of the biggest Crusaders and colonialists of all time? In this vain…I have also wondered why there was never a PLO when Turkey colonized, repressed and raped that region for 400 years?”
- That might be another historical dispute, because the turks in Egypt are not known for their opression except in the later years when they aligned themselves with the british and the french and oppressed several of the peoples protests against this. That has not been forgotten. People are aware of this.
Near my apartment in Alexandria, we have the “Mostafa Kamel” area. Mostafa Kamel was one of the known egyptian nationalists who spoke against the rule of the turkish elite in Egypt and their oppression of the egyptian people. Further south, we have a place named after Ahmad Orabi, who revolled against the turks and their british allies. You see… That has not been forgotten at all..
Also, the Arabs eventually rebelled against the turks more than once, both in Saudi Arabia and in the Levant. That is quite well-known.
It seems like early Ottoman rule did not bring along much oppression, and when it ended up doing it, the people rebelled.
It should be known that also in the late Ottoman rule, the position of the sultan was notable weakened along the reforms of the Young Turks and their turkish nationalism who ended up succeeding the (at least nominally) islam-based Ottoman state. This was very clear in the days of Sultan Abdul-Hamid the Second who in the Arab world are known for religious patriotism instead of Turkish nationalism.
But i admit that i am not an expert on this subject.
Regarding muslim colonization, most of the time it was of quite a different nature than the european one. That can be seen for example in some countries in Africa, the French have dominated the country for what, fifty years, and a portion of their population have french as their first language and almost everybody speak french, while in Bulgaria who were perhaps 4-500 years under Ottoman rule, the turkish influence is almost exclusively seen among the turkish minority.
I am not saying that the muslims through history did not act bad in any way. We have some very bad examples in the Umayyad era indeed, but i am now talking about the nature of the conquests.
“Why did Egypt come to the rescue in 48, 67 and 73…not to mention all the years of terror attacks from the south…yet did seem to care much about Palestinians under Turks or Brits? I have a big problem with that one…”
- Funny that you mention this, because at that time, both Egypt and Palestine were ruled by the turks and the brits. So the turkish-dominated Egypt should attack their fellow turkish-dominated Levant? Or should the british colony (or protectorate?) of Egypt fight the british mandate of Palestine? I hope you see where i am going with this…
In fact, the Egyptian monarchy was little more than british messengers. Many people believed - and still believe - that the british support for Israel and their maintainance of the royal house of Egypt (which was still turkish!) was the reason that we lost the 48 year. That caused the egyptian revolution, which made M. Naguib the first arab ruler of Egypt in centuries.
“Iran…now don’t get me started…They have a history of doing fine with Jews and HATING Arabs!!! Now they are the hero of the Arab world…because Ahmenadinajad sticks his tongue out at the USA and Israel (but licks Chinese boots who utterly repress a huge Muslim population). That one just makes me MAJNUN!!! HELP!!!”
- Not only chinese, also the russians. These two nations are today the greatest opressors of muslims. Without doubt.
But their involvement in Iraq tells me something quite interesting…
“In terms of Arabs in Israel…Look I LIVED there…I went to school with Arabs…even Palestinians…I worked in Arab villages…Thank you very much man but many of these dudes own VILLAS…while Israeli’s 99% live in apartments…Many have thriving businesses…”
- Well i do not doubt that the Arabs are much better off in Israel than in Iran, but what you said is troubles me a bit because it paints a picture that the average arab in Israel have a higher income than the average jew.
Not that this necessarily means oppression, because the same is the case in Denmark between native danes and immigrants which do not mean oppression.
“they can walk freely around main Jewish populations with NO FEAR…I have been there…years and years and saw it, did business with them…I bear witness that many Arabs living in Israel do just very well thank you…”
- My area is actually home to one of the biggest palestinian exile communities in Europe, and what their seniors tell is quite different from this. Most of them explain how they experienced tough mockery on almost all levels in the israeli society, and some also tell of physical assaults.
That been said, i doubt that any of them, if i ask them, will disagree with you that their case was much better in a jewish neightborhood than a jew in an arab neightborhood.
That has a reason too. But of course, it cannot be justified…
Ahmed…Ahmed…I think you are coping out a little bit here…
Egypt was just a pawn in 48? And what about the years of fedayeen attacks through the 50’s and 60’s?
Nasser closing the Suez Canal
67?
73?
And even if the Turks were not “oppressors”…they still stole “Palestinian” land…if they were Jewish Turks…wonder how they would have been greeted…hmmm?
Muslims not much in the nasty Crusader business…Come on…I talk to Iranians TODAY that are still made at the Arabs about what happened back in the day…That wasn’t pattycake they were playing and there were not a bunch of nice guys in Spain either…And what were they doing sending armies into Europe at all…selling humos?
Arab citizens being intermittently mistreated in Israel? Sure…Name me a country where a minority is not mistreated by given bullies and morons…I have some close Christian Egyptian friends for example…they have some not so nice stories as to Coptics…
But I will absolutely stand by my word. I worked in places like Kfar Yasif and had Arab business partners there…I visited in their homes, rode in their cars…Where they indicative of all Israeli Arabs…no…but drive through places like Umm el faham and look up at the hills…or around Nazareth…villas…Arab villas and lots of them…
I have walked the streets of places like Petach Tikvah…Arabs with head cover and the whole deal casual walk through shopping areas, run businesses in the sook…I saw this every single day..year after year and never once saw a guy get hassled…
But I have had stones thrown at me in the Jerusalem area…as have friends…and I have many more stories…
Abu Raccoon..you are a more recent Israelite…can you help me out here a bit?
I do appreciate your comments and the Arabs and the Chinese and Russians…I have said it a million times…In fact…who did Egypt get their hardware from… and Syria…while the Russians busily CRUSHED Muslims by the 10’s of millions?
And today with the Chinese?
Again…I am not saying the Palestinians are not without grivance…I am mostly sticking with the original topic of hypocrisy and the over reaction to Israel as such a central topic when there are MUCH grander issues.
I can walk through downtown Tel Aviv and hold up a sign “Treat the Arabs with Dignity”…
Would you try that in Gaza? Riyad? Damascus?
How about your Palestinian neighborhood in Denmark…
Sorry…this is no equivalency here…nothing even close.
“Ahmed…Ahmed…I think you are coping out a little bit here…
Egypt was just a pawn in 48? And what about the years of fedayeen attacks through the 50’s and 60’s?
Nasser closing the Suez Canal
67?
73?”
- I do not know what pawn means, but what i am saying is that in reality, foreign dominanation over Egypt ended with the Egyptian revolution and Mr. Naguib’s presidency. Not with the formal independence. What you are mentioning here are after that revolution.
“And even if the Turks were not “oppressors”…they still stole “Palestinian” land…if they were Jewish Turks…wonder how they would have been greeted…hmmm?”
- I must admit that i do not know about Palestine, but Ottoman rule in Egypt was most of the time indirect in its nature, perhaps the same was the case in Palestine, making Palestine more or less autonomous.
In any case, the Ottomans were muslims, and their sultan was also the caliph, who was the de jure ruler of the muslims, not only the turks. That includes the palestinians, who also at this point in history were mainly muslims.
In other words, Ottoman rule were as per ideology not nationalistic or ethnically biased towards one particlar ethnic group, but rather a muslim ruler before anything else. But the Ottomans failed to make that work, and no doubts remains that especially in the later years, it was more or less a turkish state, which culminated in several revolts in the Arab lands.
That is what makes the difference.
“Muslims not much in the nasty Crusader business…Come on…I talk to Iranians TODAY that are still made at the Arabs about what happened back in the day”
- We also have iranians in Denmark and i have heard their arguments, thank you. In fact, the Arab invasion of Iran had few if any similarities to the crusaders in Palestine. You can just draw a comparison between the very motivation by reading the speech of the Pope in 1095 anbd later speeches, and read them together with sayings and quotes from the Muslim leaders at that time.
“That wasn’t pattycake they were playing and there were not a bunch of nice guys in Spain either…And what were they doing sending armies into Europe at all…selling humos? ”
- Some historians argue that it was initially only a raid, not really a conquest, which can be seen by the very low numbers of arab soldiers entering Spain initially. That it ended up that way is something else. But i do hope that you are not trying to draw a comparison between Muslim Rule in Spain and the crusaders?
Even if we accept the thesis that the Arabs invading Spain did that with the exact same motivation as the European crusaders and with the exact same goal, history shows us a huge difference in methodology. No equivalency.. Nothing even close
“But I will absolutely stand by my word. I worked in places like Kfar Yasif and had Arab business partners there…I visited in their homes, rode in their cars…Where they indicative of all Israeli Arabs…no…but drive through places like Umm el faham and look up at the hills…or around Nazareth…villas…Arab villas and lots of them…”
- I am not saying that this is a lie, but i assume that you do not claim that the average arab earns more than the average jew in Israel… I mean by this you are trying to say that arabs are doing fine, not better than the jews… Am i correct?
“I can walk through downtown Tel Aviv and hold up a sign “Treat the Arabs with Dignity”…
Would you try that in Gaza? Riyad? Damascus?
How about your Palestinian neighborhood in Denmark…
Sorry…this is no equivalency here…nothing even close.”
- I really wish to believe that you could walk through this streets like that, but facing reality… You are correct. An Israeli flag on your shirt would bring along trouble. Indeed.
There is no doubt that there is no equivalency there. Like i said:
“i doubt that any of them (the senior palestinians here), if i ask them, will disagree with you that their case was much better in a jewish neightborhood than a jew in an arab neightborhood.”
but i do not believe that hate is necessarily the issue…. i mean it IS an issue, but not THE issue in this particular matter, i.e. the reaction a jew could face in Arab neightborhoods and cities. its more complicated i am afraid, because on the other hand, there is no equivalency of power bwteen the two.
In any case:
“In fact…who did Egypt get their hardware from… and Syria…while the Russians busily CRUSHED Muslims by the 10’s of millions? ”
- While i with my own thoughts and ideology believe that this is WRONG, this was not hypocritical. Egypts ideology and target at that time was Pan-Arabism, not Pan-Islamism, and as such it is not hypocritical to align oneself with Russia. I still believe that the Arabs should have payed more intention to the politics and actual deeds of their allies at that time.
It is incredibly ironic how Savo’s article was about the increased attention on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict instead of Darfur, yet most of the comments here are focusing on the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. Oh Darfur.
For shame.
Mango…
I pulled it off topic…
So did the world, dear
Ahmed….
Back to one of my main points…I disagree with about 40% of what you said…but I got us too far off point…
But back to one of my central points…word is getting out on India and here is one quote:
“Mumbai gunmen reportedly aimed to avenge atrocities against Palestinians, previously stayed at Chabad House; 4 Israelis still missing.”
Like I said…it is both purposeful scapegoating and an utterly bizarre obsession.
Indian Muslims randomly murdering as many people as they can because they are pissed off about the Palestinian issue…It is an utter sickness.
Something like this goes basically unnoticed…yet “Palestine” remains the focus:
http://www.irshadmanji.com/im-inside-india-graver-than-the-news
Leave a Comment