Okay, all silly jokes aside, but this video is pretty fascinating. It shows a Jewish guy praying in a way I’ve never seen Jews pray in before. You see, I’m pretty much used to seeing you Jews do a lighter version of the “head banging” heavy metal fans like to do in rock concerts.
I’m talking about the back and forth nodding, but this? Oh, I’ve never seen a Jew do this before, but I certainly do see plenty of Muslims do it.
Heck, it’s almost the same way we Muslims pray.
Fascinating!
(hat-tip: Wasalaam)
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 28 comments… read them below or add one }
Doesn’t surprise me, actually.
The highest level of prostration, reserved to honoring the Almighty and none else, was practiced in Talmudic times. Specifically, it was practiced during the times of the Second Temple. *At* the Temple. It doesn’t surprise me that general customs of prayer at the time imitated that of the Temple prostration, though it is indeed noteworthy that they were not a codified form of prayer - merely the custom of the time.
Following the Temple’s destruction, Jews stopped the act of prostration as part of prayer. It remained as a single event during the Rosh Hashana prayer, and on several occasions during the Yom Kippur prayer, both of which serve as major recounts and recounts of the way the prayer was conducted in the Temple when it existed. Even in these prayers, the prostration itself is *also* a reminder - we do not prostrate on stone floors, because that was allowed in the Temple alone. Instead, we place a cloth or pillow to stand between the knees and the floor. In the case of the illustration in the video above, the synagogue’s floor was already covered in some form of covering.
Unfortunately, the authors of this particular video seem to have confused customs of the time with Law Eternal, laws dependent on place (the Temple) with laws we can actually follow today (without said Temple, sadly), and the actual reason for the full prostration during Rosh HaShana and Yom Hakippurim (a cursory reading of the prayers in question would’ve been more than enough to realize what they intend - actually listening to the Rabbi as he explains their meaning *before* they begin also helps, both of which were apparently missed by the makers of the video).
All in all, the only surprise for me here is the extremes some people go to to prove how right they are while everyone else isn’t - as detailed in the video. “going back to the roots” is very nice and all - not bothering to work out the how’s and why’s along the way, though… well… that’s just plain silly and prideful.
And of course, watching an Ashkenazi Jew trying to pray like the way Yemenite Jews read the Torah, probably on grounds of it “sounding more authentic”, further cements my view that we’re dealing with recent returnees to the Faith, who, like some of them do, try to get as radically “pure” as possible. The average ultra-Orthodox Jew, upon seeing the above, would likely ask if we’d discoved a Lost Tribe of Ashkenazi Arabs recently.
What interests me is where the Islamic prayer ritual comes from.
If Jews performed a similar ritual during the time of the Second Temple, perhaps they did it earlier too.
So the Islamic ritual might be a remnant of Yishmaeli rituals brought to Mecca while the Jewish ritual is also a remnant of Abrahamic times. Perhaps it was an ancient ritual done in prayer for any god, before monotheism.
Or where does it come from?
Incidentally, wouldn’t it be time for a Muslim to rebuild the Temple? The last time it was rebuilt by Cyrus the Great, arguably a Muslim (since he believed in one god and recognised all the prophets of his times).
It might surprise today’s Muslims if it were true, but I think the Temple is the big connection.
When Muhammed referred to “the farthest mosque” he was not referring to a mosque (the building) because there weren’t any outside the Mecca and Medina region. I understand “masjid” (”mosque”) is simply a noun made of the root SGD which in Hebrew (and presumably in Arabic) means “worship”. Hence, as a Yishmaeli loyal to Abraham’s teachings, Muhammed would have seen as places for worship the Kaaba in Mecca (where Abraham brought/sent Yishmael) and the Temple Mount in Jerusalem (where Abraham left his other son).
Standing in Mecca he would have referred to the other location as “the farthest place of worship” since it was not the nearest but the farthest.
Islamic tradition says that Muhammed was a descendant of Yishmael and ultimately Abraham. That would explain the Aramaic names of the angels mentioned in the Quran and how Muhammed conversed with Aramaic-speaking Jews in Medina.
Should we not pay attention to what that connection ultimately means? Perhaps it explains the prayer ritual coincidence.
P.S.: I think one of the reasons Iranians embraced Islam was because their own faith, Mazdaism/Zoroastrianism already accepted the Jewish prophets (or at least what they said about Israel) and thus didn’t reject the idea that another person of that same family could be a new prophet. And there you have it: the connection between Jews, Arabs (arabised such), and Iranians.
I don’t believe the Temple in Jerusalem had a thing to do with Islam back in the days of Mohamed. I believe that all that excitement came much much later and was a bunch of sour grapes…Too bad…such a waste of emotion and rage and anger and self-righteousness
“I don’t believe the Temple in Jerusalem had a thing to do with Islam back in the days of Mohamed.”
I think that’s really unlikely.
Muhammed himself believed he was a descendant of Yishmael, hence he must have known the legend about Abraham. He also knew the history of Israel and about Moses. He obviously knew of Christianity which also saw Jerusalem as its holy city. I understand he also travelled to Syria in his youth. Syria was Christian at the time. Since Muhammed thought that Jesus was a prophet, he must have known what Jesus had to say about the temple. I am sure Syrian Christians happily told the stories to visiting traders.
Muhammed never (physically) saw Jerusalem, but the city must have been on his mind. He was obsessed with Israel and the Quran keeps referring to Jewish customs, legends, and individuals, confirming or denying parts of the Hebrew Bible. That man thought about Jerusalem every single day.
And after Muhammed’s death, when his followers took Jerusalem they named it “The Holy” and built a mosque on the Temple Mount. They obviously believed that the city and the hill had a special meaning. And it must have been a meaning relevant to Muslims.
Personally, I think the Al-Aqsa Mosque is perhaps the only reason that Arab nationalists and/or “Islamic” fundamentalists haven’t blown up the Western Wall before Israel took it back.
AB…
I am thinking in more of a religious sense…not historical…and I don’t know when in Islamic history Jerusalem became a point of any significant attention…I would say…hmmm around 1948
Thought provoking.. not surprised at the similarities.
Howie-
Muslims have always cared about Jerusalem… that was a big part of the Crusades and more, some argue the rebuilding of Al-Aqsa (not the dome of the Rock, the black dome in the courtyard)was completed in 674 with the help of the Jews who were local.
Peace,
erica aisha
Howie (and Erica),
Muslims pretty much ignored Jerusalem until the rise of Arab nationalism when they suddenly focused on everything Jewish. But they ignored Jerusalem not because of Islamic teaching but in spite of it.
When Muslims today speak of Jerusalem as Islam’s third-holiest city they rarely wonder why this is so. It has nothing to do Muhammed (Jerusalem was holy to Muslims before Muhammed’s time) and it has nothing to do with “Palestinians” or “Palestine” (Jerusalem was holy to Muslims before the Romans renamed Israel “Palestine”).
I am here using the Muslim definition of “Muslim”. A “Muslim” is anyone who submits to G-d’s will, before and after Muhammed, and who acknowledges the prophets as they are listed in the Quran.
Example pre-Muhammedan Muslims:
- Adam (and Eve)
- Noah (and his family)
- Abraham (and his family)
- Moses (and his people)
- Cyrus the Great
- Jesus (but not his followers who thought he was G-d)
- Muhammed
Current “Muslim” hostility towards Jews (and other minorities) is a product of Arab nationalism of the early 20th century and so-called “Islamic” fundamentalism of the 1980s (Shia) and 1990s (Sunni/Wahabi). It has nothing to do with Islam’s actual view of the importance of Jerusalem. Arab nationalism has been dressed up as “Islam” at least since the days of Hitler’s favourite Grand Mufti of Jerusalem.
So perhaps it is not right to say that “Muslims have always cared about Jerusalem”, since the area was nearly abandoned in the 19th century before the economic upturn in Israel when the Jews came back. Islam has certainly cared for Jerusalem, but Muslims have abandoned Islam’s teachings about the farthest mosque.
If “Muslims” cared so much about Jerusalem because of Islam, they would remember Abraham and his two sons and be happy that Jerusalem is back in Isaac’s hands. Ishmaeli or Arab claims to Jerusalem are as nationalist and non-religious as Jewish claims to Mecca (where Abraham went with Ishmael) would be.
AB-
That is kind of an interesting take and a bit more of what I mean…
But even in the Koran…I don’t believe Jerusalem is ever mentioned…not once..
But my main point is the sour grapes issue. I don’t believe Muslims, for the longest period of Islam, gave a real hoot about Jerusalem…maybe the Crusaders fired them up when they counter-attacked after the Muslim invasion of Europe…but other than that, until the 20th century, how much was it really an issue with them?
Sour grapes, nationalism, politics, hatred, manipulation…that is how I see it.
“But even in the Koran…I don’t believe Jerusalem is ever mentioned…not once..”
It is mentioned as the Jews’ prayer direction and as the (implied) target of Muhammed’s night journey (Sura 17, I think).
Guys,
Before Muhammad cleansed the Kabba in Mecca of idols, Muslims used to pray towards Jerusalem.
Secondly, Salahuddin.
I don’t think it is ever mentioned BY NAME in the Koran…
But it really goes back to my old hack…Muslims…particularly Arabs…kind of yawn at problems like Darfur, the Iran-Iraq war, human rights abuse, dictatorship, child abuse, women abuse and I could go on and on. But if you want to see them all get fired up…mention Palestinians, Jerusalem, Jews…I see it as sickeningly hypocritical.
I just don’t feel at all PC lately.
“I don’t think it is ever mentioned BY NAME in the Koran”
Hole places are often not mentioned by their mundane names.
Jerusalem, Zion, Al-Quds…
Incidentally, the Mandaeans apparently believe that Jerusalem is an evil place because it is dedicated to the god of the Jews, whom Mandaeans consider an evil spirit.
The Mandaeans split of before Abraham and consider Abraham, Moses, and Muhammed to be false prophets. They do acknowledge as prophets Adam and Noah (and John the Baptist for some reason).
Anyone have a good graph of the table of nations so we can get a better overview here?
RK, this guy’s an Ashkenazi, you reckon? He sure sounds Yemenite to me… unless he imitates Yemenite Hebrew accent really well, of course.
PS - Mandaeans are LOL
Raccoon, he’s Ashkenazi. Or a Yemenite of *very* unual appearance.
Raccoon?
Andrew, meet Raccoon. Or as he calls himself now for some reason, Abu Sa’ar.
Observe: http://www.blogger.com/profile/13759233794742423769
I hope this is not too much of a threadjack, but I thought that the Mandaeans were a Manichean type split off from Gnostic Christianity. Were there any of these Gnostic type groups before the Roman period of Judaism and the birth of Christianity?
Roman, I know. Maybe he has a son now (Sa’ar?)
Ar, the Mandaens are Gnostics (in fact “manda” means “knowledge” in Aramaic and “gnosis” is the Greek word for it, same root as English “know”). They do regard John the Baptist as a prophet for some reason but were not among his followers. Jesus was a follower of John the Baptist. Christianity started after Jesus’ death.
It is confusing all right… but at least Raccoon’s new name describes him well.
I am indeed now Abu Sa’ar because I have a newborn son named Sa’ar Shmuel.
Some Yemenite Jews were blond, fair-skinned and light-eyed. Not many, but I know one. Or the man could be a progeny of Ashkenazi and Teimani parents - looks like an Ashkenazi, worships like a Teimani (or Teimoni as they call themselves
).
Highly irrelevant, really
“I am indeed now Abu Sa’ar because I have a newborn son named Sa’ar Shmuel.”
Ha! I knew it! I knew it! Congratulations!!!
(I knew he was married for some time. I know his age. It was a safe induction.)
Tell your wife I said Mazel Tov.
Abu Sa’ar: Congratulations. There’s nothing like being a father
I wish your son the brightest future.
O and by the way, that jews recitation sound very much like one of the ways of reciting the Quran.
I don’t think this movie is authentic. He is holding his hands just like a sunni when praying. Jews did make full prostration but I believe they held the hands by the sides just as shia Muslims do during prayer. Sounds like he was reciting some Arabic also.
Review the book “To pray as a Jew.”
This video is real and he explains his journey through many interesting videos on youtube and his website:
“omedyashar”
http://www.youtube.com/user/omedyashar
and his website:
“Faith/Path of Abraham”
http://sagavyah.tripod.com/
As far as the video here, take the time to read the annotations that appear along with the videos in addition to the other videos he has produced on other related topics.
Peace to all.
This is not only facinating, but very moving and I could not help but feel the Spirituality and beauty in the prayer. Yes I am a Muslim and I think if we all put politics aside, we’ll appreciate each other a lot more. We are closer than we think.
This is not a video that any extremist (on any side) would be happy to see.
Thanks for sharing.
Mohamed. Z. Rahaman
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