So says Hitchens.
Sullivans isn’t happy either.
And neither am I.
In fact, here’s the relevant part from the “About Drima” section.
The War on Terror: I fully support it in principle but partially in implementation. The elimination of al-Qaeda is something I am proudly and staunchly in favor of. Many people tend to forget that it is we Muslims who are the number one victims of this heinous cancer and sickening brutality.
I supported the war in Afghanistan and still do as I believe it to be necessary. As for the war in Iraq, I was against it but given the new complex reality I now oppose a haste withdrawal.
The execution of the war and the use of unethical means – “enhanced” interrogation techniques, Guantanamo Bay, CIA-led outsourcing of torture – in the overall War on Terror are issues I’m harshly critical of.
Cool, so that says it all in a matter of few sentences.
Still, others disagree.
The best argument in favor of torture I’ve ever come across so far is by Sam Harris, NYT best-selling author of The End of Faith, which I immensely enjoyed reading twice recently.
I’ve got to say, while I have some very strong disagreements with some of Harris’s conclusions and stances, I have a significant level of admiration and respect for his ability to present powerful arguments eloquently, with reason and without resorting to political correctness.
Read his very thought-provoking defense of torture here.
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 7 comments… read them below or add one }
LOL, waterboarding is not torture. It’s a mildly unpleasant experience. Having your fingernails pulled out is torture. Thumbscrews are torture. Putting your eyes out with a hot iron is torture. Even Chinese water torture is torture.
Can you feel the differences of magnitude here? Hell, being imprisoned in solitary confinement is terribly unpleasant and has been known to drive people mad. Is it also torture? What about handcuffs - for someone like me (I have claustrophobia) it is a horribly traumatic experience. Are handcuffs torture?
And again I must point out that in most cases torture is useless (even “torture” like waterboarding). There are better and much safer information extraction techniques with much higher success and efficiency.
Isn’t Gitmo one of those prisons a lawyer can get you out of?
Wouldn’t it have been great if that method had worked in the Muhabarat compount in Sulimeiniya or Abu Ghraib in the old days?
http://gallery.me.com/ajbrehm/100025
I took those pictures three weeks ago. The former secret police station can be found in Sulimeiniya at the Iranian border. (It’s near an English school now.)
If somebody asked me if I’d rather be “tortured” by the Americans in Gitmo or held in one of Saddam’s prisons, there would be no doubt about what my answer would be.
“And again I must point out that in most cases torture is useless”
I can imagine that terrorists rarely know much about other cells, let alone in which cave their brave leaders are hiding.
Often terrorist leaders are also very public, surrounded by human shields (the most G-d-fearing use children).
“LOL, waterboarding is not torture.”
It is. At least according to Hitchens it is, and I trust him.
Now of course, it’s NOWHERE NEAR, the crazy bloodthirsty brutal shit that used to happen in Saddam’s dungeons or still currently takes place in many countries throughout the world.
However, that doesn’t mean it’s not torture. It is, albeit a “softer” one.
“Now of course, it’s NOWHERE NEAR, the crazy bloodthirsty brutal shit that used to happen in Saddam’s dungeons or still currently takes place in many countries throughout the world.”
Yes, but is it useful to call it “torture”?
Has it been called “torture” before the Americans did it? Or was it promoted for ideological reasons?
Words mean things. Does “torture” mean “waterboarding”? Is that what people think of when they hear the word “torture”? Is that what people should think of when they hear that Saddam “tortured” people?
To me it the whole thing looks like an attempt to make what the Americans do sound worse and what Saddam did sound better.
s/it the whole/the whole/
One can split the issue in two sub-issues.
(a) Did USA torture?
(b) Where it ‘just’ incidents or where these incidents sanctioned by Government officials?
My position is that (a) the USA did (/does) torture. See for instance the Argument Map I made about Mohammed al-Qahtani (link) and (b) that torture was authorized by the Bush administration (link).
“One can split the issue in two sub-issues.
(a) Did USA torture?
(b) Where it ‘just’ incidents or where these incidents sanctioned by Government officials?”
In Iraq they were certainly just incidents.
But I think we need a third sub-issue:
(c) Is it relevant?
The answer to (a) depends on what you consider torture. McCain is an actual torture expert (he was the receiving end for six years).
The answer to (b) is no in the case of Iraq and yes depending on the answer to (a).
The answer to (c) is probably that it is less relevant than everybody thinks. With all the misery in the world concentrating on those few cases just helps the real bad guys who actually torture for fun and not to extract information used to save lives.
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