Ray Hanania is an Arab Christian, a Palestinian, and I must say that if there’s any one particular thing I like about him then it’s his pragmatism. Unlike many - Palestinians, Arabs and Muslims - he embraces the reality.
Check out his article “60 years and going nowhere — Palestinians must embrace reality: The One-State Solution is the No-State Solution”. I agree with his important overall point.
He also has a new book out called “The Catastrophe: How the fanatic secular Arab left and the extremists religious right have prevented peace and blocked the establishment of a Palestinian State.”
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 15 comments… read them below or add one }
He is funny, too. I bought his DVD (”The Israeli-Palestinian Comedy Tour”). Unfortunately the audio quality is very bad.
I applaud him for listing the fanatic secular left as a culprit. Too many look to blame religion (and only religion) and totally ignore that both the PLO and their Arab/Syrian nationalist predecessors (and their German allies) were founded on a secular basis.
I disagree with one point though.
It’s not “60 years”. It has been longer. The first specifically anti-Jewish attacks by Arab nationalists in Israel happened in the 1920s and 1930s. The conflict did NOT start with Israel’s independence from Britain.
Arab nationalists have been trying to make Israel Jew-free for longer than Israel’s existence as a modern independent state. Calls for the eradication of the Jews hailed from Jerusalem and Berlin during and before World War 2.
And Ray doesn’t even address that little problem, which I believe lies at the heart of the conflict.
How can there be peace if one side calls for the extermination of the other??? And how could the two parties compromise on that issue?
“How can there be peace if one side calls for the extermination of the other???”
Absolutely true, and how can there be peace when the expansion of illegal settlements continues and you have fanatic settlers who don’t believe in the right of Palestinians to an independent state?
“and how can there be peace when the expansion of illegal settlements continues and you have fanatic settlers who don’t believe in the right of Palestinians to an independent state?”
Arab settlements in Israel also expand. I don’t see a problem with that. Populations grow.
It’s the apparent lawlessness that is a problem. Although recent reports from Hevron make me believe that the Israeli government and the PA blame a lot more on “settlers” than local Arabs do.
I think the “settlement” issue should be solved locally. Some Jewish villages should be annexed to Israel and some Arab villages in Israel can be annexed to an Arab state (IF the inhabitants so chose; I can totally understand it if they want to remain Israelis).
Hevron is perhaps a special case. I am thinking it should be left to the local sheiks to decide for Hevron. They seem a lot more reasonable than the PA (or the Israeli government).
I think not believing that Palestinian Arabs have a right to an independent state is a minor issue.
Here’s why:
1. There are many Arab states. Palestinian Arabs, in contrast to Palestinian Jews and Jews from other Arab countries, do not NEED an independent state for survival.
2. Survival is more important than independence. For the Jews both were at stake, for the Arabs only the other.
3. The “settlers” hold a minority opinion. We can safely ignore them and deal with those that won’t submit to Israeli (and PA) decisions in the right way (and I don’t mean compromise and talks).
I don’t believe in the illegality of the “settlements”. There is no international law that prohibits people from settling on land won in a war. What made the settlements illegal were Israel’s treaties with the PLO. But do ask the Palestinian Arabs whether those treaties are valid or not.
Solution for settlements:
1. Those within the border fence will be annexed to Israel. (Yes, Israel will win land. Israel was attacked, won wars, should win land.)
2. Those outside the border fence (except Hevron) should be dismantled by force, like in Gaza. (Sorry guys, that land is lost for Israel. You win land, you lose land.)
3. The “settlement” in Hevron should be subject to whatever the “settlers” and the local Arabs can come up with. I suggest that Hevron be part of an Arab state but with special autonomy because of its status as a holy place. (Similar to Jerusalem’s old city’s status within Israel.)
As for the Palestinian Arabs’ right to an independent state, that’s a Zionist myth. They originally wanted a union with Syria. The Zionists accepted the partition plan and the independent Arab state in Palestine (the second such). The Arabs rejected it. The “Palestinian state” is a Zionist invention.
And I fully support it.
Drima on May 19th, 2008 8:57 am
“How can there be peace if one side calls for the extermination of the other???”
Absolutely true, and how can there be peace when the expansion of illegal settlements continues and you have fanatic settlers who don’t believe in the right of Palestinians to an independent state?
I think it may be too late already. It will sure be in another 10 years. Settlements and settlers, the fact that both societies go through religious revival. Add to this the refugees whose numbers by now have swelled into millions. Lets say if the key to the peace and prosperity in the region and the whole world is buried in Palestine in the form of a peaceful settlement of the Israeli Arab conflict, then probably you can already kiss goodbye to both peace and prosperity.
“Add to this the refugees whose numbers by now have swelled into millions.”
That shouldn’t be a problem. The original 900,000 or so Jewish refugees have also swelled into millions.
The MAIN obstacle to peace is the refugees, for which the palestiniens do not want to compromise AT ALL. Palestinians want the right of return to the refugees to their old homes. This defeats the purpose of having two states. In addition, the refugees do not want to be israli citizens, they want to be ruled by the Palestinian authority. They do not want compensation. It is all about greed and overvalued-pride in principles of grandeur.
Guess who suffers the most of this ill conceived demand?
“The MAIN obstacle to peace is the refugees, for which the palestinians do not want to compromise AT ALL.”
I wonder if they will ever feel regret for the fact that when Haifa was being attacked by Syrian forces and the (Jewish) mayor and the (Muslim) former mayor asked Arabs to stay and defend the city, THEY RAN and left the Jews (and remaining Arabs) to die.
They do not want compensation for that? That’s fine with me.
But they cannot go back, just as the Jewish refugees cannot go back.
We have all heard the tales of how evil Zionists kill defenceless innocent Arabs. So how could we advocate moving those Arabs back into the danger zone?
This brings us back to the Arab positions:
http://citizenleauki.joeuser.com/article/168936/Annapolis_-_What_are_the_Arab_positions
If we go back to history we will understand that the only community that treated Jews with repect is muslim community “read the constitution made in Era of Mohamed PBUH”. Again if we have a look to history we will realize that Israel/Jews has never wanted peace… our problem as Muslim and Arab is unfortunately we never learn from our mistakes or from other mistakes…
The following qoute was said by muslims in the first era of islam and was said by Jamal Abd-Alnasir when he was in war with Israel:-
What is taken by force can be restored only by force and hesitant hands are not strong on construction.
so Wake up Muslims and Arab prepare your self for the big battle stop Squandering your time with the great Mr. Andrew Brehm if he truely exists
“Again if we have a look to history we will realize that Israel/Jews has never wanted peace…”
Not it you try to murder them…
I have no doubt that if YOU look at history you will realise that the Jews never wanted peace.
My hope is that if OTHER people look at history, they will see the truth.
From the Israeli declaration of independence:
WE APPEAL - in the very midst of the onslaught launched against us now for months - to the Arab inhabitants of the State of Israel to preserve peace and participate in the upbuilding of the State on the basis of full and equal citizenship and due representation in all its provisional and permanent institutions.
WE EXTEND our hand to all neighbouring states and their peoples in an offer of peace and good neighbourliness, and appeal to them to establish bonds of cooperation and mutual help with the sovereign Jewish people settled in its own land. The State of Israel is prepared to do its share in a common effort for the advancement of the entire Middle East.
End quote.
“so Wake up Muslims and Arab prepare your self for the big battle stop Squandering your time with the great Mr. Andrew Brehm if he truly exists”
Oh, I exist.
Prepare for battle? That’s peace talking?
You can murder defenceless individuals. But if you attack Israel, you will lose.
But let me quote the former “Grand Mufti” of Jerusalem, the great “Palestinian” leader (who only represented Muslim Palestinians but was allowed to be a great leader anyway because he hated Jews):
‘Arabs, rise as one man and fight for your sacred rights. Kill the Jews wherever you find them. This pleases God, history, and religion. This saves your honor. God is with you.’
He said that in Berlin, in 1944, before Israel had time to commit any “crimes” whatsoever.
It is hard to see how the two sides’ statements translate into your theory that Muslims “treated Jews with respect” and that “Jews has [sic] never wanted peace”.
Looks to me like the Jews wanted peace and the Arabs didn’t.
And you know what? Today’s Zionists still stand by the original Zionists’ opinions. We still want peace. After decades of Arabs trying to destroy the Jewish state, we still hope for peace.
I still support the words of the Israeli declaration of independence.
Do you still support the words of the Grand Mufti?
“What is taken by force can be restored only by force and hesitant hands are not strong on construction.”
We’ll keep that in mind should the Arabs ever manage to invade successfully and take, by force, a part of Israel.
The “religion of peace” has taught you only that you must prepare for battle?
What about the story of G-d telling Moses that the Jews must live in the holy land? What did that story teach you?
If we go back to history we will understand that the only community that treated Jews with repect is muslim community
*cough*Persian Empire*cough*
The Persian Empire treated Jews (and any other national minority in the empire) with much more respect than anyone who came after them. Muslim respect, I’m afraid, was merely that of second-rate citizenship. It was a good second-rate citizenship at times, but frankly… a similar kind of “protected minority” status was first offered in Christian Europe by Charlemagne, and several German kings (some of whom, in fact, were Emperors).
What the Muslims can be proud of, really, is that there was generally less violence and oppression against the Jewish minority than on the other side of the Mediterranean Sea. And no matter how nice Al-Andalus was, it held a brief existence… and was destroyed by Muslim fanatics in the end.
So please, cut the crap. Especially after modern-day Muslim states have all but cleansed their Jewish minorities - the only true exception to that rule being Morocco.
Again if we have a look to history we will realize that Israel/Jews has never wanted peace…
Mhm. Tell that to, oh… Jordan, Egypt, Morocco, Qatar, and on numerous occasions… the Palestinians themselves, though the Palestinians have the amazing talent of choosing your way of thinking rather than any alternative. Sort of like the Arab League’s historic post-1967 declaration of “You can stuff your negotiation offers, Israel”.
so Wake up Muslims and Arab prepare your self for the big battle stop Squandering your time with the great Mr. Andrew Brehm if he truely exists
Ah yes. To war, to war, forevermore! The blood will be spilled, and vengeance fulfilled, and all will be like before!
Yep. Nostalgia, self-delusion, dehumanization of the other and just plain old-fashioned hatred. Lovely.
“*cough*Persian Empire*cough*”
Don’t forget Ireland, the British Empire at its height, and the United States now.
And what about Ethiopia under the emperor?
And my European favourite: the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth.
The Persian Empire was probably the greatest state that ever existed.
Ponder,
You are a deluded muslim apologist. You have no clue of what history is. Referring to Mohamed (the illeterate prophete) as if it was the begining of human history is to say the least islamo-centric at best.
But on the other hand if you are “fake”, which is to say that you write only to elicit some reactions from others because you are Yourself one of these “others” who want to desperately to respond because they are are all day stuck with their desktop in their addictive cyberworld. Then I say you should take a look at yourself in the mirror and hit your head hard on it, you may find some relief of your psychological anti-social problem you have.
Hehehe, this thread is sooo funny!
Guys, Zaki mentioned a word that’s very relevant to the post’s topic and discussion at hand: pride.
That’s a big problem.
Israel is a reality. Get over it. The region’s ills and problems don’t depend on solving the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. That’s a lie.
“That’s a big problem.”
So what exactly are Arabs so proud of regarding the Arab-Israeli conflict?
I find it hard to believe that people who make up genocides and massacres (Jenin) have “pride”.
I find it hard to believe that people who teach their children that there is glory in suicide have “pride”.
That “pride” is to real pride what the “honour” in an “honour killing” is to real honour.
There is no pride in trying to murder Jews and failing miserably.
There is no pride in getting half your country bombed to bits by Israel after shooting rockets at Israel for five years.
There is no pride in breaking peace treaties again and again.
There is no pride in living off the UN and Israel.
It simply has nothing to do with pride.
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