“Freedom” from “Freedom”

14 Responses to ““Freedom” from “Freedom””

1. halalhippie on December 14th, 2007 2:09 pm

   How kind and tolerant of this one girl to hang out with that other girl……….

   Now, who is “this one” girl being kind and tolerant ?

2. Dalu on December 14th, 2007 3:22 pm

   Is this photoshopped?

   I thought for a moment about the big umbrella of freedom and mini freedoms that you spoke off but I have no idea what you mean. :\

   Also, this is horrible art. But that’s just due to my own biases.

3. mr.anonymous on December 14th, 2007 11:32 pm

   That!is a stupid picture.
   Automatically tagged into arabs/muslims and “free to show ur boobies or hide ur entire body based on religion or culture” concept.. well what about all the conservative women out there of all origins,religions or no beliefs at all..don’t they get to make the same choices? and wear or unwear the same clothes?

   I believe this is a propaganda picture against arabs/muslims,an appearance of a renegade..to make the narrow minded excited..but its actually a back stabber.

4. Dalu on December 15th, 2007 2:52 am

   I agree with Mr. Anonymous on the fact that the pictures shows to extremes. What I have grown irritable about is the fact that in a lot of cases only the extremes are always shown as representative of entire populations. Extreme liberalism vs. extreme conservatism. But oh hey, what about all the in betweens? So this image plays more into that propaganda.

   But oh well. On the surface, it looks like a very good idea.

   I don’t like it.

   Also.

   Bad art.

5. Drima on December 15th, 2007 5:16 am

   Hmmm, halalhippie, nice question. This is precisely why I love pictures like these. How people interpret them says nothing about the pictures themselves but rather the interpreters.

   Mr, anonymous “I believe this is a propaganda picture against arabs/muslims” …

   Carried out by the Jooooooooz?

   Dalu, I find art displaying two extremes very evoking and amusing especially when witnessing how people interpret it.

6. Drima on December 15th, 2007 6:00 am

   Oh and Dalu as for “the big umbrella of freedom and mini freedoms”

   Let me explain then…

   To many Muslim women, the hijab is a form of liberation. In their eyes it’s a kind of freedom. While in the eyes of Westerners it’s a form of oppression. What’s freedom to a Muslim hijabi is oppression to many Westerners.

   Now… the bikini. To Muslim hijabis, a woman bearing all her skin openly for people to see is a form of oppression because she gets reduced to a sexual object. Hence what Western women see as freedom is looked up by Muslim hijabis differently.

   The aforementioned is what I call mini-”freedoms”. I use quotes because because the word is interpreted differently by different people. What’s freedom to someone can mean the opposite to another.

   Okay… so now I have explained the mini-”freedoms”. They come under the big umbrella of freedom (no quotes required this time). It is none other than a state which respects the right of women to wear the niqab, hijab, skirt or even a bikini at the beach.

   The big umbrella of freedom protects the mini-”freedoms” which exist under it.

   SO… do you get it now?

7. Nominally Challenged on December 15th, 2007 10:15 am

   Good lord. The girl in the bikini looks embarrassed - she’s bending forward. And the girl who’s all covered looks like she’s about to hit her.

   I’m with Dalu - this is not good art.

   Apart from that, I don’t see why I am supposed to conclude that either of these women are ‘free’. Are all hijabi women ‘free’ by virtue only of their wearing the hijab? I doubt it. And are all bikini-clad women ‘free’ because they wear bikinis? Hardly. Women all around the world are subject to very strong external societal opinions as to what they should or should not wear (as are men, by the way). What they actually wear is not necessarily a reflection of what they might choose to wear, if they really had the choice.

8. mr.anonymous on December 15th, 2007 1:29 pm

   ooh your trying to tag me,with a “blame it on the jews”.
   Lady for future use..learn how to aim the tag before shooting it..I could shoot it back right at you..but for me..your too easy of a prey

9. Roman Kalik on December 15th, 2007 4:31 pm

   Drima’s no lady.

10. Dalu on December 15th, 2007 4:33 pm

    I see what you mean, now that you mention it, Drima. I still don’t like the extremity of it. Hmm, Nominally challenged also just pointed out something interested about posture of the woman in the bikini. I mean she could just be bent over from laughter, but the way she is posed also looks like she is laughing in a nervous/embarrassed way. And the Hijabi woman does look like she is about to throw a punch. hehe.

    Either way I look at it, I still see as it somehow being more in favor of the hijabi woman (not that she is in a good position either0. don’t know why…

    Also now that I think of it, the western woman is shown more in the extremes…being in Bikini. How many western (or none muslim women in general who are not conservative) actually just walk around in Bikini. Bikinis are more limited in music videos or the beach. While the muslim woman looks more likely to appear like that in public space. So that image is more true to her. So I am thinking at the moment, this is what makes the muslim woman have an upper hand in this poster.

    This is why I do not like resorting to extremes to “make a point.” It distorts reality.

    So no, Mr. Anonymous I don’t see it as propaganda against the muslims in that sense.

11. Lynn on December 16th, 2007 6:53 am

    I don’t like it either. Drima, have you ever or do you think you’d ever see something like this in reality?

    I agree with Nominally Challenged. I am not inclined to buy that the majority of Muslim women dress as they do out of choice. They are pressured to dress that way either by their families/peers or fear of God.
    “To Muslim hijabis, a woman bearing all her skin openly for people to see is a form of oppression because she gets reduced to a sexual object” What they don’t understand is THEY, hijabis, have been reduced to being sex objects as soon as they are told that they need to cover. That was not their choice, their religion told them that. However, the bikini clad one CHOSE to wear that and if she was uncomfortable with it she could change. Not so for the hijabi. She must constantly think of herself as a sex object.

12. Dalu on December 16th, 2007 2:21 pm

    You make good points Lynn. However, I believe women who wear bikinis are also just as oppressed and are just as sexualized, but in different ways…

    The whole damn if you do and damn if you don’t deal.

    everything you have just said can also be applied evenly to the bikini girl.

    we are told that we have to bare skin in order to be considered sexy or a sign of being “liberal” the way that women are dressed is heavily dictated by societal pressure of what is considered beautiful and sexy. what will get a woman more attention etc. But at the same time we are punished in scenarios where sexual assault takes place, then suddenly what we were wearing is put on trial against us.

    msybe the dictation of women who “expose more skin” is not as direct and obvious as it is for muslim women, but it is definitely there…

    I have to disagree though about the part where the hijabi has to think of herself constantly as a sex object (how about being free in her mind from sexual objectivity because of her choice to cover up?). I am pretty sure that was an overly generalized blanket statement.

13. Drima on December 17th, 2007 2:23 am

    NC, art is subjective. Plus I personally like art that can be interpreted differently by different people and one that addresses sociopolitical issues.

    Lynn, my explanation of the “the big umbrella of freedom and mini freedoms” to Dalu was a *general* one. I repeat *general* one.

    You say:

    “I am not inclined to buy that the majority of Muslim women dress as they do out of choice.”

    Same here. The majority of hijabis wear hijab due to peer and social pressure. There are however those that completely wear it by choice and out of their beliefs. A perfect example is some Western women who convert to Islam.

14. Danial on December 22nd, 2007 6:16 pm

    Same here. The majority of hijabis wear hijab due to peer and social pressure. There are however those that completely wear it by choice and out of their beliefs. A perfect example is some Western women who convert to Islam.

    And think discarding their own culture for an alien one makes them a better Muslim, which isn’t true.

    Just look at bloggers Umar Lee and Tariq Nelson, both American-born converts who still retain their cultural identity.

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