Conspiracy Theories About Northern Sudanese

Posted on November 4, 2007
Filed Under Jews, Sudan, WTFish?, Retards, Sudanese, Intoxication |

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry over this:

My message to southerners whom are living in khartoum right now. Be careful if you become sick make sure not to be treated by arab Doctors they will inject you with HIV, I warned you about this two years ago, but many of you didn’t listen, at last two years many of southerns have been injected with HIV in Khartoum Hospitals, I got this message from Dr I trust. As southern women if you get pregnant travel to south for delivery to avoid three deadly things,
1- Not to be circumcise during the delivery
2- Not to be inject you and your child with HIV during delivery
3- To avoid not to be pregnant again, that will be your last child, the new arab’s policy is southerns lives in Khartoum don’t have to have more then one child and that policy will be worst after separation.I warn you.

Sigh! I think I’m beginning to understand how Jews feel.

Comments

26 Responses to “Conspiracy Theories About Northern Sudanese”

  1. Roman Kalik on November 4th, 2007 7:26 am

    Welcome to the club, man, and let me tell you that reading through that topic in its entirety was a rather sad experience. Funny, in a way, but sad.

    Though to be fair, I suspect that the fear of circumcision had some basis (not to the woman giving birth, as is implied here, but to the child born) back in the days of the Islamist government.

  2. halalhippie on November 4th, 2007 10:17 pm

    “3- To avoid not to be pregnant again” …hmmm…
    Throw away the pill ? Sorry, shouldn’t joke about it .

  3. Drima on November 5th, 2007 12:30 am

    The circumcision thing, I highly doubt it. However the whole thing about taking away organs is true to some extent. If you’re poor, you’re found dead, and the doctors that get their hands on you are unethical, expect some of your organs to be sold in the black market.

    As for the rest, sigh!

  4. Roman Kalik on November 5th, 2007 6:50 am

    Dunno, Drima, man. The old regime didn’t seem to have much of a problem with forcibly converting refugee kids to Islam, from what I could gather, so the circumcision doesn’t sound all that far-fetched.

    Organ theft is a matter of corruption and lack of ethics, and it exists in every single country that has doctors. We had an issue with that a few years ago with a morgue supervisor who kept pieces of bodies for various experiments. This is an especially volatile matter for religious Jews, as the entire body is supposed to be buried. It was also a widespread issue back in the Fifties, when there was no supervision whatsoever on the matter of what happened to dead bodies, and the hospital basically owned the bodies.

    You have to have clearly defined laws and supervise hospitals and morgues. Unfortunately, Sudan is a bit on the corrupt side (and the law seems irrelevant if you’re “connected”).

  5. Drima on November 5th, 2007 10:35 am

    Roman, in Sudan FGM is mostly motivated by cultural factors, not religious. In fact universities in Sudan, both public and private usually carry out programs to help spread awareness about the evils of FGM in villages and rural areas. I’ve even watched television programs on the national Sudanese channel talking about the need to put a stop to FGM.

    As with cases of forcibly converting kids to Islam, yes unfortunately that took place during the North-South civil war. Thanks mainly to the genius al-Turabi.

  6. Roman Kalik on November 5th, 2007 10:54 am

    Drima, I didn’t mean circumcision for females. I meant circumcision for males. I understand that it would be done for Muslim boys for religious reasons, but Christians don’t usually do it (other than for health reasons).

    Sorry for the confusion.

  7. Drima on November 5th, 2007 11:56 am

    Whops, my bad. :P

  8. Andrew Brehm on November 5th, 2007 1:57 pm

    “in Sudan FGM is mostly motivated by cultural factors, not religious”

    It is never motivated by religious factors. It’s a pure tribal tradition and condemned by Islam.

    Nevertheless, it happens in Muslim areas, not because of Islam but because so many nominal Muslims really follow tribal traditions rather than what they received as the word of G-d.

    It does not happen in Jewish or Christian areas because both groups tend to have abandoned pagan tribal rituals a much longer time ago.

  9. Drima on November 5th, 2007 2:21 pm

    There are a few who will bring up religious points to back their argument. I, like you, believe they’re misguided because indeed FGM has been condemned even by al-Azhar.

  10. Roman Kalik on November 5th, 2007 2:36 pm

    In those cases when FGM is backed my Muslim scholars, it is quite apparently that a social (tribal) affair has twisted religious law to suit reality.

    You know, like the entirety of Saudi Arabia’s Shari’a system.

  11. Andrew Brehm on November 5th, 2007 5:04 pm

    FGM:

    “Misguided” is a nice word for what they are. You can be too forgiving, you know.

    A “Muslim scholar” who backs such practices is neither a Muslim nor a scholar and belongs in a zoo.

    Saudi Arabia:

    Saudi Arabia’s legal system has little to do with the spirit of Shari’a. In SA tribal law takes precedence over Islamic law. That alone disqualifies the SA legal system as an Islamic legal system because, obviously, NOTHING takes precedence over G-d’s law.

    Reforming G-d’s law within the spirit of the law is debatable. But taking previous law and ignoring Quranic law is clearly a violation of Shari’a. Furthermore, the latter is a rejection of the Quran’s validity as a legal work, while reform is an acknowledgement of the Quran’s validity.

    SA specifically rejects reform but does support the primacy of tribal law over Islamic law.

    As far as I know it is legal (according to Islamic law) to reject the Quran, but only if one instead acknowledges previous revealed scripture (i.e. the Tora or Bible). Rejecting all revealed scripture and following (some other) tribal law is a rejection of the duty to submit to G-d’s will.

  12. Andrew Brehm on November 5th, 2007 5:09 pm

    Disclaimer:

    My rants about my interpretation of Islam do not represent scholarly opinion or a claim of such. I am no Muslim, do not claim to be a Muslim, and I have not studied Islam except as a hobby and as a part of understanding Abrahamic faith in general.

    It is my understanding that Muslims must accept as true of what I say only that which does not contradict Islam. As a non-Muslim I can only “teach” what Islam teaches me, nothing more.

  13. Dalu on November 5th, 2007 6:33 pm

    I had to go to the source just to make sure my mother is not behind this. :P

    She’s always about “watchin’ out for them arabs”

    -sigh-

    I never add or take anything away from conversations do I?

    ;)

  14. Drima on November 5th, 2007 6:54 pm

    “You can be too forgiving, you know.”

    Haha, I know. It has to do with my inclination not to engage in takfir. But yeah, I basically consider these people to be ignorant idiots. They’re not scholars and they might actually belong in a zoo. However they’re Muslim, only really dumb ones. Like I said, I’m not a fan of takfir.

    Dalu, I’ve come across Southerners who have such passionate hate for Northerners - any Northerner. I know a few here who hate me and totally avoid talking to me just because I’m “one of them”. And I’m like what the…??? Do you even know me? Do you even know what I think of John Garang?

    It’s exactly like how many Arabs/Muslims passionately hate Jews - any Jews. Why? Because they eat Palestinian babies.

    Conspiracy theories are a headache!

  15. Dalu on November 6th, 2007 1:23 am

    At first i laughed at the “palestinian” babies bit. And then I realized that it’s not an exaggeration. I once had a guy who tried to convince me that jews did in fact eat arab babies. :’\

    The insanity.

    If it’s any consolation you’ve got one southern girl who doesn’t hate you. :P

    Which is surprising. I grew up amidst some serious ass northern hatred (spread out to other fellow southerners hatred lol -sigh-). :(

    Does it go both ways at least? Or is this just one sided. I’ve never had the guts to ask.

  16. Drima on November 6th, 2007 5:14 am

    “I’ve never had the guts to ask.”

    You just did! Indirectly. :)

    If you mean to ask whether some Northerners hate Southerners, then no shit. But it’s more of an ugly condescending and intensely racist attitude.

  17. Roman Kalik on November 6th, 2007 7:44 am

    At first i laughed at the “palestinian” babies bit. And then I realized that it’s not an exaggeration. I once had a guy who tried to convince me that jews did in fact eat arab babies. :’\

    The old blood libels don’t go away, they just change into a more modern shape. This sort of dehumanization is not specific to Jews, it’s just *consistently* attributed to Jews.

    Which is because unlike other demonized and oppressed minorities that got a similar treatment over the millenniums, we’re still around.

    http://www.memritv.org/search/en/results/0/0/0/2/0/0/0/0.htm?k=Al-Shatat

    The following series, Al-Shatat, was produced in Syria and aired by Al-Manar (Lebanese Hezbollah’s TV network), Iran, and Jordan. Among these you will also find the old “Jews killing pure child to bake matzos for Passover”, among various other conspiracies and hate propaganda.

    And a bit nearer to you guys, a movie studio in Egypt is producing a movie based on “The Matzah of Zion”, written by Syrian Minister of Defense Field Marshall Mustafa Tlass in 1983, supposedly revealing the “truth” of the blood libel in Turkey, 1840.

    http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/stalinsky200404060909.asp

    The book, you will notice, was reprinted in numerous editions.

    It’s an easy path to tread, sadly. And many died along the way. Demonization is merely the first step along the path of stripping away an enemy’s humanity, which makes killing him and everyone he knows… simple. Because he’s not human anymore, see. This sort of thing never ends well.

  18. Andrew Brehm on November 6th, 2007 2:49 pm

    “Among these you will also find the old “Jews killing pure child to bake matzos for Passover”, among various other conspiracies and hate propaganda.”

    To be honest, as long as these stories are told and are a good part of the reason why so many Arabs want to destroy Israel and kill Jews, I don’t feel guilty AT ALL for supporting draconian measures against Israel’s enemies.

    I don’t think Arabs realise that the main reason for Israel’s brutality is that it is all too clear that showing weakness would mean total annihilation for Israel.

    If our enemy didn’t use the same propaganda and arguments the Nazis used, Israel wouldn’t have treat them like Nazis should be treated.

  19. halalhippie on November 6th, 2007 11:57 pm

    Andrew: good point. As an outsider “Aryan” I try to understand both sides, but I gotta admit I would talk differently to a Jew and an Arab/Muslim.

    I’d have no problem walking up to you and criticizing Israeli politics, knowing “you can take it” but an Arab/Muslim I’d grant the “brainwashing factor” … I’d be considerate of the censorship/propaganda he’s been exposed to and the Palestinian issue.

    What am I trying to say ? Israelis think more “european” Muslims more “oriental” maybe it’s just my prejudice. Maybe I shouldn’t be posting at 1.am.

  20. Andrew Brehm on November 7th, 2007 12:12 am

    Halalhippie,

    Israelis are as middle-eastern as they come. It is the Arabs who have been absorbing the worst of western culture: fascism and nationalism.

    There was nothing specifically middle-eastern about the secular socialist nationalist movements that opposed Jews and Israel in the past 100 years. Nasser’s and Arafat’s idols were not middle-eastern thinkers but European dictators. Even Saddam Hussein wore a tie.

    The actual “middle-eastern” bit of Jew-hatred is a rather modern phenomenon and bears little resemblance to past middle-eastern culture. In fact, when you visit an Arab and there is no context of politics you will find that their culture is the most friendly in the world. That was the middle east before European fascism became fashionable.

    It is not European to listen rather than hate. It is merely more rational. And rational thinking as fashionable at different times in different places. It is just not fashionable now in the Arab world. But that has nothing to do with Arab culture as such. The poisonous ideologies of the secular Pan-Arabist on the one hand and the Wahabis and Khomeiniists on the other hand spread not because of Arab culture but in spite of it.

  21. Drima on November 7th, 2007 2:39 am

    Andrew, write a book man. Such observations are difficult to make when someone like me is on “the inside” if you know what I mean.

    Very interesting, and true!

  22. Andrew Brehm on November 7th, 2007 12:14 pm

    Drima,

    I find that maybe I am outside enough to observe and inside enough to understand. I am very lucky.

    I have never lived in the middle east but I sure felt at home in Israel. Furthermore the University of Haifa, where I studied, is 20% or so Arab.

    I should have taken pictures of people more than buildings and landscapes perhaps. It is said that Lebanon is the place where one Muslim girl wears traditional modest clothing while her sister walking next to her wears a short skirt and t-shirt. In Israel you can see a Jewish guy between the two, interacting with and attracted to both of them.

    Israel is, in that sense, a mixture of Lebanon and Morocco. (Morocco is the only majority Arab country where a large community of Jews is still part of society.)

    A book… well, maybe I should blog more. When I do write a blog entry about the middle east it’s usually agressive. Most of the smarter stuff tends to come out when I read your articles.

    And thinking that you still link to my blog even though I stopped blogging about anything but personal matters months ago… Keep the link. I will write more.

  23. Ahmad al-Safawi on November 8th, 2007 9:08 pm

    “It does not happen in Jewish or Christian areas because both groups tend to have abandoned pagan tribal rituals a much longer time ago”

    In Egypt it is more common among christians than among muslims.

  24. Ron on November 9th, 2007 3:34 am

    You really cannot blame the Southerners for their self-protection mechanisms. The Southerners eventually will have to dehumanize Northerners in order to deal with them. The Southerners seem to be a bit naive in seeking brotherhood with Northerners who are hoodwinking them. It is difficult for Southerners to separate the good from the bad.

    Eventually, Southerners will become more balanced once they achieve independence and collective level of sophistication. It is like AfricanAmericans can be somewhat happy that they were traded as slaves and no longer subject to ethnic chauvanism and can look to leaders like W.E Dubois, King, and Frederick Douglas.

    So Southerners can take something positive out of the negatives based upon their suffering at the hands of Norherners. Now you have groups of Southerners throughout the world who can transmit their sophistication and education to generations to come.

    Salaam

  25. Drima on November 9th, 2007 9:04 am

    “Eventually, Southerners will become more balanced once they achieve independence and collective level of sophistication.”

    And I sincerely wish them the best of luck. I really want to see the South realize its potential.

  26. Andrew Brehm on November 9th, 2007 9:44 am

    “In Egypt it is more common among christians than among muslims.”

    That is interesting, I have never heard that before. Do you have a source?

Leave a Reply