My, oh my, I need to bang my head on a wall a hundred times and puke! WTFish??!
A fundamentalist church pastor had sex with two of his teenage daughters to educate them on how to be good wives, a South Australian court has heard.
One is 13 and the other is 15.
The man told the court the sex was not about fulfilling his desires but about teaching his daughters how to behave for their husbands when they eventually married, as dictated in scripture.
Since when does the Bible instruct a father to rape his daughters? Maybe this loony “religious” nut should go chill with the Taliban in Afghanistan or something.
These are the best parts of the article as observed by Little.Miss.Dalu:
Enraging parts, dutifully, highlighted.
a) The title of this article is infuriating, “had sex?” shouldn’t it be “raped?”
b) and this is according to the scripture? You mean the scripture according to sick rapist fucks? Cuz I sure as hell would like to know where in the bible he pulled this from.
c) His fuckin’ wife and church remain supportive of this bullshit??!
d) HE ONLY GET 8 YEARS WITH ELIGIBILITY FOR PAROLE IN FOUR?To ‘educate’ them on how to be good wives?
Brain overload.
This is so wrong!
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
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Great! Now this sort of thing is spreading to Christianity.
What about the requirement that a future wife be a virgin? Can’t trust fundamentalists!
“What about the requirement that a future wife be a virgin?”
An excellent observation I failed to make!
Sickos like this who use religion as an excuse make me mad.
This is’nt a new thing among christian pastors. Thats nr. 1.
Nr. 2: Yes, he probably should go chill with the Taliban. I hope the Taliban is’nt too hypocritical and will punish him for breaking the shari3a is their usual fashion.
Totally messed-up, as is the light punishment. I wonder if a parents’ sexual abuse of his children is even classed as rape by Australian law. And if it isn’t, then why the hell not?
The judge gave too light a punishment here, and the entire case wasn’t given proper importance. How can this man be allowed anywhere near kids (his own or any other) ever again is beyond me.
Ahmad,
I didn’t hear of any other examples of (allegedly) Christian clerics using their religion as an excuse for their crimes.
I doubt the Taliban would punish him for anything but being a “Christian”. Non-believers like the Taliban tend to find the crime of faith in the true god much worse than other crimes.
Andrew, I work with Christian and Muslim victims of incest and sexual abuse.
A pastor or church leader is more likely to abuse than a lay person. Especially if the church is very strong on obeying authority, the pastor is not under the accountability of an elder board and is a lone ranger.
It is obviously an abuse of authority, when the man deceives himself into thinking he deserves special treatment or is exempt from the rules he preaches. Remember Ted Haggert. In my husband’s Catholic parish, there was a ring of pedophile priests who ‘marked’ certain at-risk boys entrusted in their care. They felt they “deserved” it, since they were celibate.
But Islam is not getting off the hook here either. It is just not brought to light yet, and may not, as it usually involves boys, not girls. Schools are a pedophile magnet. A Muslim friend did tell me that Hizb il Tahrir in Lebanon, actually deflower their own daughters as part of a rite of passage.
Sudanese friends have said incest is a problem in Sudan too, when a father takes a teenage daughter as a wife after abusing her as a child.
Kinzi,
Not sure why you are telling me that as I never doubted the truth of it. However, I haven’t heard of any examples of a Christian cleric using religion as an excuse for abuse.
THAT seems new to me.
Andrew, I was going by your first comment. Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by ‘this sort of thing spreading to Christianity’.
And no, I haven’t heard a Christian cleric using their religion as an excuse. Lots of pathetic excises, but not that.
Kinzi,
You assumed that I was talking about the crime as such, as if I had never heard of child abuse by Christian priests? Come on! I live in Ireland.
Please don’t assume ignorance. Look for whatever meaning a sentence can have apart from the impossible.
kinzi, good observations..
Let me make another:
“c) His fuckin’ wife and church remain supportive of this bullshit??!”
I read “a good chance of rehabilitation as his wife and the church remained supportive.” as meaning supportive of his _rehabilitation_.
“Sickos like this who use religion as an excuse make me mad.” me 2, a lot of ppl in my end of the world see religion as the root of all evil. This turd doesn’t make it easier.
That’s rather sick, and very disgusting!
This brings up an old problem of mine that I have yet to settle…
Does being religious really make people better people.
The religious cop-out, somewhat like Ahmed’s statement is “well, he really wasn’t a believer or a true believer”…I hear that shit from people, especially Christians all the time…
I am a religious person, pray at least several times a day and blah and blah blah. Yet…I have not yet seen a clear correlation between religious BELIEFS and religious PRACTICE or behavior. Among people I know, in fact, some of the best have been atheist or marginally religious.
The idea is counter-intuitive…but I have seen SO much of this that it depresses me to no end. In the religious world in have seen goodness, no doubt, but also greed, competition, lying, theft, rotten sexual behavior, violence, selfishness…and it seems about on the same levels I see in the atheist-not so religious camp.
It is a depressing observation…but I cannot just block out or rationalize what I have seen again and again and again.
Ahmed-
I think my comment sounded too personal…not directed at you…I apologize…it is just this subject hits a real cord with me…I have given huge time, passion, sincerity and money into my religion and have often felt that I have wasted all that effort.
“Sudanese friends have said incest is a problem in Sudan too”
Huh? When? Where? Who? Rapes do happen but I’ve never come across cases of incest. Are they prevalent or rare?
Howie, I understand what you mean.
I think for different people, religion means different things. For me, religion at its core should be about personal and spiritual development. If it doesn’t fulfill that, then something is wrong. It annoys me when people reduce it to a simple a set of dos and don’ts whether in Islam, Christianity, Judaism, Hinduism etc. It annoys me even more when it’s taught in a “supremacist way” (if that term makes any sense), that can cause tension in a mutli-religious society. Furthermore, religion shouldn’t become a barrier to free-thinking, rationality, and inquiring about science. At its core, it should be a source of comfort.
I’ve got a few Christian friends who were very agnostic previously but later on started attending Church and found comfort in Jesus. I liked their transformation. Why? It was spiritual, not the crazy “rigid” kind, you witness with other people sometimes. They stopped using drugs and gave up their previous unhealthy lifestyle. I’m happy for them.
” a lot of ppl in my end of the world see religion as the root of all evil.”
I think it goes both ways Halalhippie. After all Stalin and Hitler are a few examples that indicate the opposite. It’s better to say, “the manifestation of the ugly side of human nature is the root of all evil”.
By the way Kinzi, why can’t Christian religious figures just cancel this whole thing about celibacy? If I’m not mistaken Catholics practice it but Protestants don’t right?
Roman, you’re right about the light punishment. It’s crazy. I think a psychiatric mental instituion would be more suitable for him.
Drima-
Great points…but if we take this up another level…there is a problem.
Religion, if it is “Truth”, cannot be relative, cannot be for personal interpretation, but “reveals” a set of values and morals that are divinely inspired and must be followed.
With that being said…we have about a zillion religions and a zillion more interpretations. God must have known all this would happen…
You see, if heaven and hell are at stake…you would have to be a jackass not to want to get it right. Thing is…nobody can agree on jack shit, even the meaning of something that would seem clear, like murder…(would it be moral to go back in time and murder Hitler as an infant? Would it be immoral not to?)…
But your points are well-taken and I have seen religion change lives…mine included…yet there is this taste in my mouth I CANNOT close my eyes to. And I could profess all kinds of faith…like God does not know what is really in my heart and mind?
This is some really tough shit here.
Andrew, I am sorry to have offended you in ‘assuming ignorance’, but I find such lack of awareness common. You seem to be a very aware and intelligent person. Had I known you were in Ireland, I would have asked for an explanation.
That said, intelligent and aware people can also be in choose to deny the reality of abuse. You are obviously not one of those people.
Drima, I don’t know enough about the extent of the problem yet. I was asked to host a conference on abuse awareness and recovery in Khartoum in the spring of 2008, maybe you’d like to come.
HalalHippie…I don’t know how these people define ’supportive’. I’m glad they support the fact he will get help, forgive him his sin. But trust again…no way. Not until he has lived a sterling record for a long time. People who are this far into it are very hard to rehabilitate. But I don’t believe he should pastor a church or be near his daughters for a long time. It sounds like a toxic church to me.
Sorry Andrew, i misunderstood what you meant with spreading to christianity.
Howie, thank you for your correction, i did not understood it that way anyway, but thank you for caring
Maybe it’s just “power corrupts”… if I were a religious leader and had ppl believing every word I say…. I’d have to be very careful to ‘walk the line’
Howie: “Religion, if it is “Truth”, cannot be relative, cannot be for personal interpretation, but “reveals” a set of values and morals that are divinely inspired and must be followed.”
Values and morals are not static. They change over time and place. Need I mention the Prophet marrying young Aisha ? That was acceptable then, but try starting an new religion today, and marrying a 9 (or 12?) year-old. I wouldn’t put my money on your movement. On the other hand, judging historical figures by today’s standards is no better.
Values are what we agree to value. In my end of the world “we” value the rights of children, for instance. A child should not have sex, be put in prison or work until old enough. That age is set by law at 15. Your mileage may vary.
Morality is what we agree is morality. Driving and drinking is immoral in combination, but not separately. Immoral because it endangers/bothers other people, not because it’s in some holy book.
If something is unacceptable to yourself, your society and your religion, then it may be wise not to do it.
(Sorry for this rambling, I should get some sleep)
Holy crap.
I guess I should have used less profanity if I had known I’d be linked here.
But it’s absolutely infuriating. This sort of thing is not new, people just have a better time covering it up (Because I’m cynical like that, I tend to keep a very close watch on fundamental sects of Christianity). It’s just that every once in a while, things leak out. I mean, we are still reeling over the whole catholic church scandal. :’(
But I’m glad this brought about a discussion here. Quite interesting.
I’m still typing up a fuller response to that article. My biggest issue is the wording of the article (the avoidance of calling this rape) and the judge’s response, “oh since you are ‘really really sorry’ I’ll just slap you on the wrist.” wtf. 8 years is an outrage and I still can’t wash the vile taste in my mouth knowing full well that his church, and his wife (the mother of this poor girls) still supports this monster.
What is wrong with people? :’(
A very fine example of religion being used by disgusting sick fucks. And coming from someone who is in such a position of “moral” power?
Fuckin’ Aye.
“I guess I should have used less profanity if I had known I’d be linked here. :P”
LOOOL! No I like your blog as it is. And you should know that it’s now my most favorite Sudanese blog (ehm ehm besides mine obviously). I totally enjoy it. So yes, keep blogging, cursing, and maintaining the raw emotionally charged style. I’m officially a Little.Miss.Dalu fan. Yaaay!
Halalhippie, hmmmm… interesting comment.
“” a lot of ppl in my end of the world see religion as the root of all evil.””
Many if not most Europeans feel that way because of the historical treatment they endured under the Church. I think in our part of the world, many people will start seeing mixing Islam and self-serving politics as the root of all evil sometime in the future.
Question though, Halalhippie and I hope it doesn’t sound offensive. Don’t you think some form of religion or at least more spirituality will be a good thing for Europe? The perception that I’m having is that many (not all) Europeans suffer from a spiritual void. I’ve talked about this with some of my European friends and they seem to partly agree.
“Many if not most Europeans feel that way because of the historical treatment they endured under the Church.”
Actually, during that time people liked religion. The Church mostly mistreated minorities (Jews). But you will not find that many European Jews who would list the Church on top of their list of people they don’t like.
To be honest, I think Europeans feel that way because it is easier to become an atheist and blame religion for all evil than to accept that everyone bears some responsibility for what happens. You cannot “opt out” by identifying some group as the bad guys and then make sure you are not one of them, not if the bad things that happened have nothing to do with that group as such.
The really bad people in Europe were atheists (Stalin, Hitler) and anti-Christian neo-pagans (Hitler’s followers). They were helped by some in the Church and opposed by people within and without the Church.
What happened in the middle ages has little impact on Europeans today.
Drima: “Don’t you think some form of religion or at least more spirituality will be a good thing for Europe?”
I think your premis is wrong. There is a lot of spiritualiety in Europe. It´s just not organized religious dogma. The fact that god has died in modernity doesnt make the big questions of existense and morality go away. In a way they turn out to be more pressing, because now there is noone but us to come up with the answers.
Ramadan Kareem & happy Rosh Hashanah, btw.
“The fact that god has died in modernity doesnt make the big questions of existense and morality go away”
Well, it seems to me that for a segment of European society it has. I’m talking about those living what I view as a hedonistic lifestyle. It’s work, work, work on weekdays and party, party, party on weekends without any real goals for a higher purpose. The goals don’t have to be religious, they could be philanthropic in nature or something.
Birth rates in Europe are declining amongst Europeans and many women have no interest in getting married or bearing children, since they’re concerned with their careers and continuing to live their comfortable lifestyles.
I hope I’m not sounding rude or anything. Just wondering and looking for some European feedback.
Well, my life is work, work, work on weekdays. But I don’t party. Don’t see the point.
The only real goal I have pursued aside form that is to learn Hebrew.
I wouldn’t know how anybody can afford children these days. OTOH two people working together, sharing a house, should be able to manage.
“Well, my life is work, work, work on weekdays.”
Ya and apparently reading blogs, blogs, blogs.
“I wouldn’t know how anybody can afford children these days.”
So the reasons are solely economic? There’s gotta be more.
“Ya and apparently reading blogs, blogs, blogs.”
Well…
“So the reasons are solely economic? There’s gotta be more.”
I think we have also become more picky in our choice of partner, especially the women.
Drima: “without any real goals for a higher purpose”
Partying is fun. It almost qualifies as a higher purpose to me
Especially when I was a bit younger. Now I tend to focus on little things like my sons first steps, the sunset over the sea, making a difference at work etc.
I dont think the falling birth rates in Europe is due to a lack of real goals for a higher purpose. Women have choices like contraception and work. They tend to plan their lives. But personally i think it is changing a bit now, with an increasing focus on family values. They dont want to go back to the kitchens though.
My point is that “meaning” is what we make of it. There is no need for god in the equation. I’m not trying to be polemic here. Just curious to find out what our differences are.
AB-
If you really want to learn Hebrew…you would be best off moving to Israel for a year or so…
Do you want to learn modern or Biblical? Though the two are related…the are also quite different. And if you have a religious bent…you are looking at Arameic as well…which is similar but also different.
But if you are going to try to learn Hebrew from Ireland…man GOOD LUCK!
Howie,
I was in Israel, studied Hebrew at the university of Haifa.
I thought that was general public knowledge.
“Partying is fun.”
Oh HELL YEAH! I did however tone down the “crazy” aspects practiced during my high school years.
Anyways, back to the topic. This guy should be locked up for much longer.
“Don’t you think some form of religion or at least more spirituality will be a good thing for Europe?” (no problem you ask)
Agree somewhat with Peter: there’s plenty spirituality to go around, visible religion is (somewhat) looked upon with suspicion. Which is why hard-core Salafis and veiled women may feel discriminated against.
Would it be better ? I dunno, I _don’t_ want the days of mental slavery back. I do consider myself a very spiritual person tho’ - every day I pray “Dear Lord, give me faith, but save me from religion”
True, there are people without foundation or purpose - partying, working eating and sleeping. In a religious society they’d be the donkeys, just following along.
An atheist can be very moral, just as a believer can be very immoral. Moral values may or may not correspond with religious values, don’t necessarily come from them.
“Anyways, back to the topic. This guy should be locked up for much longer.” He should be locked away for as long as the laws he broke make it possible. The fact that he’s a minister shouldn’t be an issue. After all, even Shari’a law doesn’t judge ppl differently because of their religion, or does it ?
That’s it!
I’m sooo not gonna have kids in this screwed-up world!
AB
I am the only one that didn’t know?
Well “pog mah hon”
“An atheist can be very moral, just as a believer can be very immoral.”
Agreed.
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