I don’t need to say anymore. And you know what’s worse? I don’t even know what to propose as a solution. Who does? I predict Hamastan is going to be the scene of much bloodshed in the coming days. Salam Fayyad is probably the only light at the end of the tunnel. He’s the only individual in this whole mess that I find appealing.
Iraqis are killing each other. Great! Palestinians are killing each other. Wonderful! Lebanese are killing each other. Lovely! In
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 30 comments… read them below or add one }
All hail the Islamic Republic of Gaza! ’sigh’
As for Fayyad, I share your sentiments. His emergency government (with the exception of the Minister of Interior, a Fatah general) are technocrats. Doers, not money-grubbers. This a great opportunity to turn the West Bank around, at least. But if history’s any sign, this too may become even worse.
I just wonder how they are going to survive in Gaza. It seems to me they will be completely cut-off from the rest of the world except Iran now. So:fine. But what about the people?
I just wonder how they are going to survive in Gaza. It seems to me they will be completely cut-off from the rest of the world except Iran now. So:fine. But what about the people?
This morning I heard Condi Rice announce emergency/food dollars for Gaza through the UN. Can’t find anything on the internet, though. I just hope it goes to where it’s supposed to go. Sigh.
I’ve been following the whole Gaza drama with great amusement. It’s one of those moments where we can break out the scotch bottle, settle into an armchair, and watch the fools go on butchering themselves.
If jihad is a form of entertainment, then the Gaza strip houses all of their movie theaters.
No doubt they’ll get more funding, because the show must go on!
“His emergency government (with the exception of the Minister of Interior, a Fatah general) are technocrats. Doers, not money-grubbers.”
Don’t forget that Abbas has a historical opportunity to co-operate with Israel. Iran is a good ersatz-enemy.
Abbas wants his own state and he finally has a chance to get one now.
Andrew, he does indeed. But it’s worth mentioning that the horde of armed groups, combined with an angry Fatah old guard, are going to make this opportunity very difficult to grab.
I just searched bbc.com for “Abbas” and I found the headline “Hamas to co-operate with Abbas” (June 15th 2007). It’s a video I cannot watch here but the tagline says “Hamas’ exiled political chief has vowed to work with the Palestinian leader, after seizing control in Gaza.”.
This is why the following is taken from a German news site, which seems a lot better informed than the BBC. I’ll translate the important quotes.
http://www.n-tv.de/816143.html
“Der Iran unterstütze zahlreiche “nicht-demokratische Gruppen” in den Palästinensergebieten, im Libanon und auch im Irak, sagte Abbas-Berater Jasser Abed Rabbo.”
(Iran supports numerous non-democratic groups in the Palestinian territories, in Lebanon, and in Iraq, said Abbas-aide Jasser Abed Rabbo.)
“Gleichzeitig wies er Kritik aus dem Iran zurück, Abbas’ Notstandsregierung sei undemokratisch. “Der Iran hat nicht das Recht, uns Nachhilfestunden in Sachen Demokratie zu geben”, erklärte Rabbo.”
(At the same time he rejected criticism coming from Iran which said that Abbas’ emergency government is not democratic. Iran does not have the right to tutor us in the subject of democracy, explained Rabbo.)
What can I say? He is right.
I think we have reached a point where the remaining Arab nationalists have realised that Iran is a much bigger danger than Zionism, and has been attacking Arabs for some time and in many places.
Arab nationalism is beaten, but I am reminded of World War II, when shortly after allied victory it became clear that the Soviet Union was an even greater enemy.
So what shall we do? Wait for Arab nationalists to transform into patriots, give up their hatred of Jews and Kurds and other minorities, and then defend civilisation against Iran?
Don’t let yourself be fooled. Iran won’t give up until they control Iraq, Lebanon, and Palestine. And when they reach Saudi Arabia we can see the heretics fight each other for Mecca.
I think it is about time for Muslims (real such) to ally with the remaining secular nationalists and the Jews and Christians to defend the (Sunni) Arab world. Once the Iranian heretics have Jerusalem, do you think they will stop there and not lay claim to the other two holy cities as well?
(To make this clear, I consider both the Wahabis and the current Iranian elite to be heretics, as they were traditionally considered before secularism disappointed to so many.)
Just another take on the whole situation..
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/world-news/article2663743.ece
Well, a “take”…
Perhaps Fisk should finally try to understand that no land is “Arab land” by default, just because he says so, and that recognition of Israel is not something dirty, that only the brainwashed would ever do.
80 Years ago the Jews were a “race”, and now the new fascists doubt that they are a people.
Fisk fails to see that Hamas’ Islamic Republic tendencies (and their completely undemocratic private armed forces ,for that matter) and Fatah’s corruption aren’t mutually exclusive. Both exist. Perhaps Fisk ought to realize that other people undersand that both exist, and choose to support the corrupt assholes because of the alternatives.
Or lack thereof.
Because, in the end, Fatah can move away from the corruption (if it only tries). The corruption isn’t what Fatah stands for, merely a by-product of its stagnation and of Arafat’s policies. Whereas Hamas is fully its ideology. They are inseperable. There is no compromise, merely temporary ceasefires to prepare for a future battle. Hamas are not corrupt. They’re worse than corrupt.
Had the Palestinians managed to produce a third option, better than these two, then it would have been supported. It’s not about control (and I won’t bother tearing apart the arguments Fisk brings to support that premise, as anyone who can see more than one side of an argument and who doesn’t erase facts from his mind can do it himself), but about choosing the best option from what you have, when the alternatives are worse.
I find it more shocking (but not surprising) that Fisk apparently doesn’t remember the peace treaty between the PLO and Israel.
One of the terms was the recognition of Israel, which the Palestinian Authority had fullfilled (until Hamas was elected). And now, suddenly, Fisk claims that Hamas could not possibly know what this “Israel” is they are supposed to recognise.
I don’t know how the guy can live with himself, writing article after article about the middle east without knowing even the basic history of what he is writing about. He constantly wonders about well-established facts.
“Hamas are not corrupt. They’re worse than corrupt.”
Corrupt people are those who value money more than their ideals.
Considering Hamas’ and Fatah’s ideals, the corrupt group is certainly more to my liking.
Yes, I consider it a good thing if somebody prefers money over murdering Jews.
One of the terms was the recognition of Israel, which the Palestinian Authority had fullfilled (until Hamas was elected). And now, suddenly, Fisk claims that Hamas could not possibly know what this “Israel” is they are supposed to recognise.
Yep. As I said, doesn’t take much to tear apart his argument.
What argument?
Oh, there was one there, somewhere. Something about Western policies. Me, I just focused on the Hamas part of it.
Finn: while you’re having a scotch, human beings are dying. Seriously f#@! up humans, but still……..
Drima: I just heard on the radio that Sudan is _the_ most dangerous country to be in. Followed by Iraq, Lebanon, Afghanistan etc. half of the top ten are Muslim countries.
Friendly advice. find a sweet EU or US girl and marry her.
while you’re having a scotch, human beings are dying.
I’m not sure they are human beings any more. They’re something else: performers, or, to be more precise, simulacra.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simulacrum
They’ve come to ““bear no relation to any reality whatever.”
As such, they’re expendable, like a DVD viewed and returned. Welcome to the post-9/11 post-modernist world.
i dont like people dying at the hands of psychos.. ever..
so much blood is flowing down the steets of gaza that soon they’ll be able to generate electricity off the current.. its disgusting..
i want it to end.. now
Lirun -
Well, they ARE getting what they paid for. Why should you rob them of their just reward?
check this out:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-3249955364069010660
Lirun, and how do you propose to end it? No one can stop this madness other than the people who started it, and have yet to truly realize what they’ve done.
Because if the Palestinians don’t realize, this will just repeat itself. Over and over again.
Vote for us and we will keep you in the war. We will attack Israel and fight the PLO. — Hamas
The Arabs in Gaza were asked what they wanted. And they voted for Hamas. I don’t feel sorry for most of them. I can’t.
They wanted to kill Jews and destroy Israel so badly that they voted for known violent criminals. Now they get what they wanted Israel to have.
Too bad.
If only all wars ended like that.
It’s a shame. A great shame on all us Muslims and the Arab world. Is there really a Muslim ‘Ummah’ remaining? ‘Politicians’ and ‘leaders’ are simply playing with ordinary people and using them to fullfill there own greeds and goals.
Omar, you have a point; perhaps.
Yet you have politicians and leaders that are not playing. But you are not following them.
When King Faisal made a deal with the Zionists that would have shared the benefits of Jewish connections with the west with an Arab empire located behind Israel, did you follow him?
When King Abdullah I wanted to leave the Jews alone, and the Arab nationalists wanted to kill the Jews, did you follow him?
When King Hussein was attacked by the Syrians and evicted the PLO, did you follow him?
When King Abdullah II wants peace with Israel now, do you follow him?
You have the great and wise leaders, but you choose not to follow them. You cannot blame the leaders. You have to blame yourself.
Looking at the American presidents of late and the state of the British royal family below the Queen, and looking at French and German and Russian leaders; I cannot help but admire the Arab leaders I mentioned above, who have consistently shown good judgement and wisdom and who have, sadly, consistently been beaten by Arab Nazis and Wahabi heretics.
“Amre El-Abyad said…
Hllahippie: Israelis have to be hated that is the moral duty of the entire Arab nation. They dont belong here that isnot their land. There never be pecae in this region, unless this terrist illegitmte and illeagal entity is dismantled. UNTILL THEN THERE WILL BE MORE WARS AND BLOODSHED.
hOWEVER IF YOU SYMPATHISE WITH THEM I SUGGEST THAT START OFF CALLING FOR DONATING PART OF DENAMRK TO JEWS, IN ORDER TO BUILD A STAE THEIR. wHO KNOWS MAYBE THEY USED LIVE THERE BEFORE VIKINGS:)))))))) ”
I had to share that from Isis’ site. Hallahippie saw it…
I used to be a Leftist Peace Now type advocate…time has taught me how terribly naive I was…
How large a population does a moron like this represent?…I fear a huge segment and I have heard these types of comments SO many times…even back in college in the 1970’s straight from little rich, priviliged Arab’s mouths.
I don’t think there is much hope for the “umm” and why would they deserve much with their thinking and track record?
Funny…he says we Jews are foreigners…when does he start history? 1930? What about Arab/Muslim imperialism…from the Saudi pennisula to Persia, to Spain, Africa, Central Europe..even the Phillipines…and it was often vicious and murderous…
When I think of these attitudes…I just feel…go on…go get each other…you give yourselves no hope.
What these idiots not realise is that there is no need for a Jewish state in Europe because Jews are already full citizens of European countries. They can vote, run for office, work in all jobs, and are protected by the law like everybody else.
When Arab nationalists think that some land is “their land”, let them run into other people’s guns until they learn that not everything they want is theirs. Other people have rights too, even Jews.
Ok, here is the good part.
Abbas and the more power-hungry/pragmatic members of Fatah want their own state.
For the last few decades they were caught between the Israelis and the Arab street. The PLO and Fatah relied on Israel’s military power to create the state and on the Arab street’s support. Unfortunately the Arab streets wants its leaders to kill Jews and Israel, intolerant as that may seem, insisted on its strict apartheid-position: Israel will give no politial power and/or a state to those who want to bring on the second Holocaust.
Hence Fatah’s only hope was to change at least one of the two hard places. Arafat tried to cheat Israel and lie, telling Israel that he has given up his genocidal hopes while telling the Arab street that he has not, and the military factions in the PLO have continued to compete with other groups in the sport of killing Jews to prove to the Arab street that they have not given up accepted traditional values (brought to the Arabs by Hitler’s friend and Arafat’s uncle, the mufti of Jerusalem)
But now things have changed. Iran and her allies have become a much greater threat even than the existence of Jews. Arab nationalist sentiment doesn’t like Persians either. And Abbas is now using the situation to ally openly with Israel and the US against Iran and her proxies, including Hamas.
That’s why only a week ago a Fatah spokesman accused Iran of being behind attacks against (Sunni) Arabs in Iraq, Palestine, and Lebanon. He is right, of course, but the connection was never so openly stated by an Arab Nazi.
Perhaps Arab nationalism has reformed, has become patriotism? Perhaps we can finally work with their remaining supporters?
On the whole I think this Palestinian Civil War provides new opportunities for the west to split the Muslim world, and for the better. The notion that the ummah has to be united is a rather naive and politically immature notion. There is no reason for the ummah to be united since human beings are too diverse to agree on any doctrinal teachings on just about anything.
The Iraqi Civil War is similar. It’s successes could possibly be emulated in Gaza, Syria, Iran, and even in Saudi Arabia. There’s nothing like war, and especially civil war, to clean out the cobwebs in peoples’ thinking.
surely no one is saying that we poor israelis are mere pawns in the hands of the almighty palestinians who determine our fate happiness and security.. right?
Lirun,
You Israelis were pawns in the hands of the Arab armies. But you broke free.
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