Recent Poll On US Muslims

40 Responses to “Recent Poll On US Muslims”

1. why, yarn? on May 24th, 2007 8:30 am

   Hey, I noticed the twin towers on your blog and the fact that you’re in a South East Asian country. Would your Poopa Majoma be Malaysia?

   I’m Malaysian.

   Take care and keep up the blogging!

2. Finnpundit on May 24th, 2007 9:50 am

   25% is still a huge number, on a subject like this.

3. Andrew Brehm on May 24th, 2007 9:51 am

   “25% of Muslim teens: Suicide bombs ok”

   Suicide is forbidden in Abrahamic religions, as is killing other people except in war or self defence.

   These people go to hell, and the excuse that they were trying to murder Jews heeding Allah’s call to live in their assigned land and not turn back will not help them.

   Those who violate G-d’s law on purpose and repeatedly can hardly be called believers.

   Which brings me to my point. I wish you wouldn’t call those who preach death and destruction “extremists”. The word “extremist” suggests that they belong in the same category as the others and are merely more extreme.

   Islam does not dictate the murder of civilians and Islam does not say that suicide is a good thing. Supporting either does not make one more Islamic, an “extremist” of Islam; it groups one among those who reject the teachings of Islam.

   The traditional term for those who reject the teaching of the Abrahamic religion is “pagan”. They are not “extremists”, they are pagans.

   If 25% of nominal Muslims are really pagans, Islam has a problem.

   Islam already has to deal with the fact that, like communist countries, leaving it is seen as a punishable offence, because apparently, without the threat of punishment, Islam cannot any more keep many of its followers.

   Faith is difficult. Faith includes the will to believe in principles that run contrary to one’s own interests or desires.

   And depending on how stupid you are, your desires might also run contrary to your interests.

4. nominally challenged on May 24th, 2007 12:22 pm

   Um, no. It’s not really very funny. Even 80% opposition to suicide bombings is not enough. 100% would be enough. (Hint - try polling other groups on the same question).

   This is not a case of seeing the full half of the glass, because the empty half (or quarter) has the power of, well, blowing the glass itself to smithereens, and personally, I’d rather this particular glass was entirely full.

5. howie on May 24th, 2007 1:20 pm

   Drima-

   I wonder what would happen if they took this same poll to Gaza, Egypt, Yemen etc…even France?

   I think it downplays the real problem…but I do get your point.

6. Drima on May 24th, 2007 1:23 pm

   NC, I wasn’t refering to the 25% statistic as funny. What I found funny was the titles of the articles.

   And yes 20-25% percent acceptance is indeed a large number which presents a real problem. The question is, what is America going to do about it?

   The interpretation of this poll *will* play a major role in shaping the steps that follow.

7. Drima on May 24th, 2007 1:59 pm

   American’s on the left can’t celebrate the fact that Muslims there are moderate and then flip the finger to the Islamophobic elements of the right and say “told ya!”

   At the same time those elements in the right can’t ramble and ramble in anger about the evil 25%, forget about the other 75% and then flip the finger to the left and say “told ya!”

   There certainly is a problem. 25% is no small figure (even though it’s not as bad as Europe’s case). Yet, there needs to be a balance.

8. Andrew Brehm on May 24th, 2007 2:04 pm

   “What I found funny was the titles of the articles.”

   The headlines show very much that non-Muslims see suicide bombing as an integral part of Islam. It is already accepted that a Muslim who doesn’t support the murder of innocents is a “moderate”, as if Muslims were not human beings and would not all agree with this basic principle.

   These polls are done the same way Jews are polled about whether they keep kosher (25% do to some extent, I hear), or Christians are polled about whether they go to church (17% in Germany, I think). It’s just that in the public perception suicide and murder have become as “Muslim” as keeping kosher is Jewish and going to church is Christian.

   And the reason for that is two-fold and it has nothing to do with xenophobia or islamophobia.

   Reason number one is that those who love suicide and the killing of innocents, usually Jews, regard themselves as Muslims and are not vehemently and, when necessary, violentely opposed by other Muslims.

   Reason number two is that political correctness has become so powerful that it does great injustice to Islam. A position that onle a few decades ago would have been called anti-Semitic, murderous, wrong, and/or racist, is now called “Islamic”; because calling somebody an anti-Semite or racist is not politically correct.

   There are laws in the US that allow Jewish butchers to violate certain law for religious reasons (even though the US is supposed to be secular!), because Kashrut is considered a part of the Jewish religion and thus, apparently, enjoys a special status.

   Suicide and murder have become Islam’s Kashrut. It is very much seen as a part of the Muslim religion and, since criticising somebody’s religion is wrong, must not be construed to be bad things.

   Hence terrorists become “militants”, murderers become “peace activists”, if they are (nominal) Muslims.

   And the vast majority of Muslims seems insulted if anybody calls those animals what they are rather than accept them as faithful Muslims.

9. Andrew Brehm on May 24th, 2007 2:07 pm

   “I wonder what would happen if they took this same poll to Gaza,”

   It depends.

   It was with some considerable surprise that I saw a Gaza man interviewed by a British (not American) news team say that he and many in his street wand the Israeli occupation back.

   Maybe, if you asked the population of Gaza and could somehow guarantee that they can speak their mind without being punished for it by Hamas or Fatah, the result would be that the vast majority very much opposes terrorism.

   It does seem to me that the terrorists’ strongest moral supporters live in the west and have no idea what the terrorists do to people. They don’t want to know, they just want to feel like they can see behind the scene and understand the situation more deeply than stupid neo-cons.

10. Andrew Brehm on May 24th, 2007 2:21 pm

    “At the same time those elements in the right can’t ramble and ramble in anger about the evil 25%, forget about the other 75% and then flip the finger to the left and say “told ya!””

    Drima, you are trying to make this result look nicer than it is.

    This is not 75% moderates and 25% who are slightly non-moderate.

    This means that _ONLY_ 75% think that suicide and murder are NOT ok.

    The actual moderate/non-moderate split is within the 75%.

    The poll means that only 75% of (nominal) Muslims are normal (in the sense of being social animals).

11. Drima on May 24th, 2007 3:36 pm

    Andrew, lots of interesting and insightful points. I’ll get back to you on them. I’m busy with the Darfur thing right now.

    Btw:

    “Muslims are normal (in the sense of being social animals).”

    Careful, some might think the “Darwinistic” terminology is an insult.

12. Andrew Brehm on May 24th, 2007 4:37 pm

    “Careful, some might think the “Darwinistic” terminology is an insult.”

    

13. tsedek on May 24th, 2007 10:36 pm

    (even though it’s not as bad as Europe’s case)

    Euhmmm…. how do you mean? How are the numbers in Europe then?

14. Craig on May 25th, 2007 7:28 am

    Worse, Tsedek. Much worse. That’s the good news Drima was talking about. Muslims in the US are for the most part happy and well satisfied. But then I would think that any American who works for a big company or lives near an urban area already knew that. Muslims have been doing well in the US for a long time. As long as I’ve been alive, at least.

    Interestingly, France is the only country besides America where a majority of Muslims did not feel themselves to be Muslim, before being anything else. That’s an important stat, maybe the most important in the whole study. Somebody who doesn’t put their religion at the center of their identity and self-image is not likely to become a fanatic, under any circumstances. And I’m really surprised France did well on that one.

    http://pewforum.org/surveys/muslim-american/

    That is a summary, but you can download the whole report in .PDF from there if you wish.

15. Craig on May 25th, 2007 7:32 am

    Oh! I forgot to say I agree with almost everything Andrew said… and very well put, too! I find it really disturbing that we have that many people who would support murderers in the US. I can’t figure it out. Is it just peer pressure? They say that because they feel that they should? Or do they really think suicide bombings of the innocent are what God wants them to do in order to defend Islam? That’s a “does not compute” for me.

16. The Atheist Jew on May 25th, 2007 3:28 pm

    The biggest issue is that if there was a poll on Christians, Jews, Buddhists, Atheists, etc, the poll results would be next to zero for any type of approval of suicide bombings. That is what is most troubling with these results. I don’t think the West wants to worry about a glass being half filled or quarter filled or three quarters empty, it is troubling that humans can rationalize suicide bombings, and the fact that almost anyone on the planet who condones suicide bombings also happen to be Muslims, puts the onus on Muslims to rectify the problem as much as they can, and even go out of their way to do so.

    OT. You might enjoy this post I made on my Judeophobe Watch blog:
    http://judeophobewatch.blogspot.com/2007/05/stormfront-manifesto-has-been.html

17. Nomad on May 25th, 2007 7:34 pm

    Thanks, Craig, for mentionning that pew study. It is not a surprise for me though. I have always defended on SM’s blog that there were no major problems with our muslims, but most of the people thought I was kind of fool idealist ; the medias were doing too much noise for only 10 % of them ; everyone was expecting some mess after Sarko election ; the only ones wo tried to riot were the extrem lelt spoiled children ; and it last only a few days till the left party ask them to stop, fearing for the next legislative elections,,and that was a kind of returnment of the minds too when Sarko chose a metis algerian-maroccan female to be the minister of justice

18. tsedek on May 25th, 2007 11:08 pm

    Thank you Craig.
    Fewer native-born African American Muslims than others completely condemn al Qaeda.
    That would explain a little bit, no? Or are many of the native-born African American Muslims not “inspired” by the Nation of Islam? (which I BELIEVE a rather ‘aggressive’ group, no?)

19. Craig on May 26th, 2007 6:55 am

    You’re welcome, Nomad

    Tsedek, yes… I think almost all native-born African American Muslims (that’s a mouthful, isn’t it!?) are Nation of Islam. And yes, they are very militant. Their beliefs seem substantially different from other sects of Islam, though. I’m not sure how much stock they even put in the Quran, to be honest… I’ve heard a lot of very strange things coming from their leaders on television over the years.

20. Drima on May 26th, 2007 9:38 am

    Andrew, getting back to your comments.

    The thing about dismissing Muslims who believe that suicide bombings are okay as non-Muslims would be engaging in a dangerous practice called takfir.

    It’s kinda like some previous extreme retards I used to know who used to accuse me of being a non-Muslim kafir just because I go to clubs or play musical instruments.

    Takfir is dangerous because when done succesfully it can make you an apostate in the eyes of society.

    Instead of practicing takfir and calling them non Muslims, I prefer to stick to calling them sinfull, misguided or bad Muslims. There is always hope of enlightening them and convincing them to change their misguided opinions.

21. Andrew Brehm on May 26th, 2007 11:12 am

    “It’s kinda like some previous extreme retards I used to know who used to accuse me of being a non-Muslim kafir just because I go to clubs or play musical instruments.”

    I don’t think the Qur’an is quite as clear about music and clubs being forbidden as it is about murder and suicide being forbidden.

    This is not an issue of relative merit. Going to clubs and listening to music does not violate the basic law of all the prophets’ teachings. But murder does, and suicide does.

    All of Islam’s prophets up to and including Muhammed have reiterated that murder is wrong and that suicide is wrong. Those prophets of Islam that are also regarded as prophets by Jews and Christians have said it, and other prophets of other Abrahamic and monotheistic religions have said it. It is not an issue that is subject to discussion or interpretation any more.

    “Instead of practicing takfir and calling them non Muslims, I prefer to stick to calling them sinfull, misguided or bad Muslims. There is always hope of enlightening them and convincing them to change their misguided opinions.”

    I don’t know what Muslims (real such) believe they must think about those people, but I am not a Muslim and look at those people as people who claim to have faith in the god of Abraham yet violate the most basic laws of that god. And they do it without regrets.

    And while I see Muslims (real such) as followers of the same god that I believe in, I do not see those who reject the teachings of Abrahamic religions as such. Their lack of faith does not make them evil, but their actions do. Their lack of faith makes them merely wrong. And I think evil is a result of being wrong.

    If Islam means surrendering to G-d’s will then those people are not followers of Islam. They are not “misguided” or “bad Muslims”. They specifically reject all Islamic teachings, Muhammed’s and pre-Muhammed.

    Jews and Christians are misguided, in the view of Islam, because they did not recognise the last and most important prophet. But Jews and Christians do surrender to G-d and are thus counted among the believers.

    If you want a misguided and bad Muslim, talk to a Jew. But those suicide bombers and their supporters are not among the followers of the god of Adam, Abraham, and Moses.

    Sorry for making this point a bit over-dramatic and religious, but I figure that the sooner it makes the news that Islam is about the god of Moses and that murder and suicide are not Islamic traits per se, the sooner will we get rid of Islamophobia, if such a beast exists at all.

    And the more often we call the murderers pagan, the more insulted will they feel and the less support among the faithful will they receive. They do not deserve being thought of as “Muslim extremists”, they ought to be thought of as what they do not want be seen as: pagans.

    A real Muslim extremist would support peace, because that is what G-d wants and that is why the traditional greeting in the middle east is “peace be with you.”

    (In Europe it’s “I am your servant.”)

22. Andrew Brehm on May 26th, 2007 11:20 am

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takfir

    ” The orthodox Sunni position is that sins do not in general prove that someone is not a Muslim, but that denials of fundamental religious principles do; thus a murderer, for instance, may still be a Muslim, but someone who denies that murder is a sin must be a kafir, as long as he is aware that murder is a sin in Islam.”

    And this is interesting:

    “Muhammad is recorded in a hadith as saying that:
    If a man (in a battle) is attacking a kafir with a spear, and it has reached his throat, and at that moment he says ‘There is no god but God’, the Muslim must immediately withdraw his spear.”

23. Drima on May 26th, 2007 6:30 pm

    “thus a murderer, for instance, may still be a Muslim, but someone who denies that murder is a sin must be a kafir, as long as he is aware that murder is a sin in Islam.”

    I think that sums it up well.

    However, you see, unfortunately it’s still not that simple. You and I and in fact millions of other Muslims know that suicide is forbidden in Islam. There are others who don’t or aren’t sure.

    Some influential Sunni scholars like al-Qaradawi have approved of suicide bombings against Israelis. I’m thinking that those 25% who heard the question must have thought, “oh Qaradawi said suicide bombing is okay. Qaradawi is a well-known and big scholar. Alright, well I guess he must be right. Suicide bombings could be okay in some cases” and then they answer yes thinking that in Islam suicide bombings depending on some conditions are allowed.

    If they *knew* suicide bombings were forbidden and a sin in all cases but still supported them, then that would make them non-Muslims.

    The challenge for us as Muslims is to discredit arguements by people like al-Qaradawi and make sure Muslims especially young Muslims get exposed to the tons of other qualified well-learned scholars out there who oppose views like al-Qaradawi’s and discredit them based on theological Islamic texts. Moreover, the attitude of listening and following without questioning should be discouraged. Ijtihad is the way forward. God gave us brains so we can think, not blindly follow. Plus, in case you didn’t know, “iqra” which means “read” was the first word of the Qur’an revealed to the Prophet.

24. Andrew Brehm on May 26th, 2007 7:02 pm

    This doesn’t work out.

    These people know that Islam forbids suicides. They simply chose to follow something else and call it Islam. Human beings are not naturally open to commiting suicide, it takes some convincing to make them do it. (Otherwise humanity would have died out long ago.)

    They did not listen to a few people and suddenly decided that suicide is what G-d wants. They purposefully rejected G-d and follow something else instead (and call it G-d).

    This is too basic for the excuse of ignorance to fly.

    And if they are indeed so ignorant that they believe these scholars (who purposefully teach sin), they are not Muslim either. A Muslim is somebody who submits to the will of G-d, not someone who submits to whatever people tell him G-d wants.

    In the case of Israel, it’s a three-fold problem. According to the teachings of both Islam and Judaism Jews are supposed to live in the land of Israel. They were told, by G-d, to live there, even at the price of other peoples living there.

    Committing suicide and murder to stop the Jews from doing what G-d commanded them to do cannot be excused with ignorance. The story of Moses is such a basic ingredient in both religions, if you do not know it and acknowledge it as the truth, you can hardly claim to be a follower of either religion.

    The definition of “Muslim” is not only about following those of G-d’s laws that one knows. It’s also about knowing the laws.

25. Roman Kalik on May 26th, 2007 10:23 pm

    Very interesting, especially the debate in the comments.

    I have little to add beyond my opinion that calling people ‘pagan’ to their face won’t help much, and that addressing basic matters of ignorance of basic Islamic teachings and the reality of a hijacked (in part, at least) religious institution may help.

    ‘pagan’ is a good way to exclude someone from your religion, and thus merely wash your hands of him rather than try to open his eyes to the fact that he *follows* pagans.

26. Roman Kalik on May 27th, 2007 2:48 pm

    That said, though…

    That’s a more suitable approach on an individual basis. Muslim religious leaders have to say quite clearly what the people who lead young impressionable Muslims to suicide bombings are, and just where said young Muslims are led to.

27. The Raccoon on May 27th, 2007 7:01 pm

    RK -

    Uhm. Thing is, it’s these Muslim religious leaders who are leading young people to suicide bombing.

28. Roman Kalik on May 28th, 2007 5:17 am

    Not all of them. Some of them. And as there are those who give a stamp of approval on suicide bombing, there should be religious leaders that vehemently and loudly object to them.

29. The Raccoon on May 28th, 2007 7:55 am

    RK -

    Yeah… but they don’t. Well, a few do; I presume that those who don’t denounce terrorism are supporting it.

30. Drima on May 28th, 2007 9:25 am

    “I presume that those who don’t denounce terrorism are supporting it.”

    In some cases yes you’re certainly right, but not all are like that.

    Eteraz.org has well-learned people with Phd’s in Sharia who oppose suicide bombings writting there. There are so many well-learned Islamic scholars around who denounce terrorism almost daily. Just because you don’t hear about them, doesn’t mean they’re not there.

    It’s not easy finding them in the Arab world or Muslim majority countries like Pakistan but they’re much easier to find in Western countries as they’re not so “chocked up” there. Not only that, but many Islamic scholars born or raised in the West actually had a chance to interact with Jews. That’s why their opinions differ positively when it comes to issues such as suicide bombings against Israelis.

    The suicide bombing supporting ones that are intimidating and shout the loudest are the way they are for a variaty of reasons. One is that government controlled media puts the spot light on them since they serve the political purposes of the dictatorships in the countries they’re in. They have a better platform. Why would Hosni Mubarak for example want the media to give the attention to some Islamic scholar who wants peace with Israel and doesn’t demonize the Jews? That’s not going to serve his interests. It would be better for him to have someone spreading hate and propaganda about Jews being the root of all evil. It’s also more effective and believable when it comes with a religous twist. THAT my friend serves his interests. Otherwise who’s he going to blame when things get messy and problems arise? Eskimos? No. It’s the Jooooooooz.

    In come blogs and the internet. We’re the healthy alternative.

    And remember to keep something in mind something Raccoon. Just a little over a year ago, I would have loved to see Israel getting nuked and celebrated the death of every single Zionist living there. Why? Because I never knew there was such a thing as a good Israeli. Oh hell no. All Israelis were evil devils. End of story. That’s how it was.

    Just because I never met, saw, or communicated with a good Israeli, doesn’t mean they don’t exist.

    It’s the same with us.

    Before ending this comment let me clarify something. I believe, terrorism such as 9/11, Madrid, London 7/7 bombings are opposed by the majority of Muslims. I say this very confidently. Unfortunately when it comes to Israel in specific, it’s a different case. I can’t confidently say if it’s the majority that oppose them. Israelis are seen as legitimate targets by many Muslims since both men and women in Israel have to train in the army for a certain period and are part of the reserve. Hence, in their eyes, they’re not civilians.

    To me if they’re on the bus, in a restaurant or in a non-combatant role, then they’re not legitimate targets. But if they’re on duty guarding borders, engaged in war, patrolling etc. then they’re in a combatant role and could be considered a legitimate target. (but of course the method of using suicide is still wrong).

    Oh ya and another thing came to mind just now… I personally know people who support Bin Laden and consider him a hero but check this… according to them 9/11 wasn’t by him, it’s was by planned by Bush… killings in Iraq are by Americans using the divide and control strategy… 7/7 Londing bombings weren’t by him, they were planned by the British government… Madrid wasn’t him… tapes claiming responsibility are fake… BUT… the Iraqi Mujahideen fighting the invaders in Iraq are led by him… Therefore, in their reality, they won’t condemn terrorism or condemn Bin Laden as it’s all fake crap manufactured by the kuffar to pin the blame on Muslims. Basically for many Muslims there’s no Muslim terrorism to condemn. It’s a conspiracy.

    How can you condemn something that doesn’t exist or that you’re not responsible for?

    And daaaamn, sorry for blinding you dude. This is a gigantic comment.

    Anyways…

    You got:

    1-the crazy extremist “death to all kuffar” loonies,

    2-people like me, and

    3- those who live in a paralell universe with a different reality.

31. Andrew Brehm on May 28th, 2007 10:05 am

    “Just because I never met, saw, or communicated with a good Israeli, doesn’t mean they don’t exist. It’s the same with us.”

    Did you ever meet, see, or communicate with a bad Israeli?

    On the other hand, we have always known that there are good Arabs and that even the bad Arabs have rights. That’s why the US and Israel, despite having the means to do so, have not simply murdered all the Arabs in Palestine.

    “Unfortunately when it comes to Israel in specific, it’s a different case. I can’t confidently say if it’s the majority that oppose them. Israelis are seen as legitimate targets by many Muslims since both men and women in Israel have to train in the army for a certain period and are part of the reserve. Hence, in their eyes, they’re not civilians.”

    That’s funny. The only reason everyone in Israel has to train in the army is because so many people tried to murder all the Jews that it became necessary to have a strong defence.

    It sometimes seems to me as if the majority of Arabs perceive the timeline backwards.

    What we saw, on the Israeli side, is that the Arabs were trying to murder Jews, hence we started training all of them as soldiers. What the Arabs say now is that they murder Jews because they were trained as soldiers.

    Then there is the issue of why Israel was attacked in 1948. We saw how the Arabs attacked Israel and were helped by Israeli Arabs, who fled and were expelled during the war; who were told to flee by their Arab allies and were not allowed back by Israel because, well, they participated in an attempted Holocaust. The Arabs claim that they attacked Israel because of what Israel did to the “Palestinians”, causing them all to become refugees and so on.

    And when Gaza attacks Israel and Israel responds, after a delay of weeks, it turns out that the attacks on Israel were a response to the Israeli aggression.

    And Hizbullah obviously answered to Israeli aggression when they fired at Israel for five years. And the “aggression” finally happened when Israel shot back. And when that war featured the first non-Israeli victim, the mainstream media started reporting it.

    What you need is clockwise-going clocks.

32. Roman Kalik on May 28th, 2007 2:08 pm

    Drima, regarding the third category,

    How do we change this one? Simple facts may work with some, if presented well, but how can one go against self-delusion and victimization? This is a mental defense mechanism, and big one.

33. nominally challenged on May 28th, 2007 4:50 pm

    Hey Drima -

    I personally know people who support Bin Laden and consider him a hero but check this… they won’t condemn terrorism or condemn Bin Laden as it’s all fake crap manufactured by the kuffar to pin the blame on Muslims.

    Then what do they support him for? Things they don’t think he did?

34. The Raccoon on May 28th, 2007 8:20 pm

    Drima -

    A few Imams that I’ve heard of are denouncing terrorism and teaching peace and love. But for every one like that, there are a hundred who do the opposite.

    Yes, they are more vocal. But it seems reasonable to me that if MY religion was being perverted into some monstrous death cult, I would be screaming to high heaven, rattling every cage and fighting against it with all my might.

    The fact that I don’t hear such a loud cry is… telling.

    And then there are the polls.

    NC -

    The alternative reality people support OBL’s fight against the evil occupiers who are killing lots of Muslims and evilly plotting to destroy Islam. Duh.

35. nominally challenged on May 29th, 2007 10:54 am

    Raccoon -

    The alternative reality people support OBL’s fight against the evil occupiers who are killing lots of Muslims and evilly plotting to destroy Islam. Duh.

    Duh, indeed. They support his ‘fight’, but they claim he’s not actually responsible for committing any of the acts involved in such fight. So my question is, if they believe that he didn’t commit any acts of international terror, then what exactly do they believe that he did do?

36. Andrew Brehm on May 29th, 2007 11:19 am

    “what exactly do they believe that he did do?”

    He was sitting in a cave praying for humanity when the Americans invaded the country he was currently rebuilding, raped all the towns, and burned down the women.

    When he was trying to convince the Americans that they must be peaceful and not rape towns and burn down women, the evil American dictator decided that Bin Laden must die.

    Bin Laden then tried one last time to offer his condolences to America for the terror attacks the Jews had committed against New York earlier in September, but it was too late.

    Since then the Americans have ruled Afghanistan as a colony in order to take its wealth and add it to their own. Bin Laden found another cave and continues praying.

37. The Raccoon on May 29th, 2007 11:26 am

    NC -

    Of course he is. His brave and glorious warriors are killing infidel stormtroopers, preventing the latter from raping Muslim women and devouring Muslim babies.

    But in the meanwhile, the evil Joooooz-controlled West is maliciously bombing itself to make Muslims look bad. Capicce?

38. The Raccoon on May 29th, 2007 11:28 am

    Oh… and let us not forget that such people engage in doublethink. So OBL did not cause 9/11, but is a great warrior for doing 9/11. There is no internal contradiction here… just ask Orwell.

39. nominally challenged on May 29th, 2007 12:23 pm

    Andrew - LOL.

    Raccoon - Doublethink - oh. Well that’s ok then. I just wonder if Drima’s friends realize that they’re engaging in it, that’s all.

40. Roman Kalik on May 29th, 2007 1:57 pm

    Andrew, heheh.

    Raccoon, you’re right on the money there.

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