Long time readers of The Sudanese Thinker know that I’m a big fan of Eteraz.org. They, ehm you, also know that I’m not a fan of Jihad Watch. The reasons are obvious. Now while I’m a big fan of Eteraz.org and also a fan of its co-founder Ali Eteraz, I must say that there have been some few occassions in which I found Ali’s opinions to be distasteful and at times even offensive. On the other hand, I previously thought Robert Spencer to be a retarded dummy. I don’t think so anymore. For the past 3 months I followed his writings quite closely until I realized that Robert Spencer is indeed not your average hateful close-minded Islamophobe. He’s smart and he’s done a lot of reading on Islam but I certainly still do strongly disagree with his points of view. I can blog a post detailing why but it won’t come close to this one. Ali Eteraz has just written one of his best posts ever. What do you think?
UPDATE: The debate continues. Spencer responded and Ali replied. It’s an excellent discussion and I believe Ali has done a superb job.
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 9 comments… read them below or add one }
Drima, I’ll have to check out Eteraz…but I’m really posting to say I’m glad you changed your mind about Robert Spencer. I try and read both sides of the fence, as well as my favs in the middle, and I was surprised by your comment that RS was retarded (some of his commenters, maybe). I think he asks questions that need answering on several fronts. Anyway, good on ya for sticking with reading things you strongly disagree with, and I’ll read the “E” soon.
I thought that it was a very good article. I think that Spencer’s greatest mistake is that he is looking for facts that support a predefined conclusion, rather than examining all the facts first and going for conclusions second.
He’s an intelligent man, but he ended up being so sharp that he cut himself.
jurists are bound by their context; the world around them.
but isn’t that exactly the problem?
aren’t there ‘jurists’ around that wish to hold on to the past and not look at the context, the world around them?
“I think that Spencer’s greatest mistake is that he is looking for facts that support a predefined conclusion”
Exactly RK, you said it really well. That’s why sometimes I think that it’s no point arguing with him since he has his mind pretty much made up. I prefer discussing things with people who are open to ideas and aren’t very rigid in their stance.
Kinzi, you’re Jordanian right? Did you check out the article yet?
Don’t you speak to me anymore, Drima?
Drima, I am an Arabic- speaking American Christian mom/free-lance writer long-term resident of Jordan (that covers a lot of bases, yea? You are welcome to visit my blog) I hadn’t read Ali E before, and am glad I did. I also went over to JW and read his rebuttul. It encourages me that there are moderates in Islam that are truly contending for the soul of their faith - maybe not moderates according to RS’s definiation, but good enough for me.
I felt RS received some of the corrections Ali E made, and instead of running to find a way around them, has learned and may not be as rigid as you think. He seems to welcome dialogue with Muslims who are willing to answer questions. (OK, you should probably know I am also an incurable optimist)
The only difficulty I have with Ali E’s discourse is that he seems to discount the very real threat of those who ARE bent on living out the Islamic jurisprudence of 600 years ago - whether sanctioned by governments or not. Living in Jordan has shown me how very many people may believe what a government is standing against. I also see a bit of the “Obi Wan Kanobi’ syndrome: wave a hand in front of those asking hard questions and say “You will now let us pass”….this happens to me,too. I’m just not too excited about my friends talking about how Islam is taking over the world and what a great place it will be for me there. Show me you can make it work fairly in the place it began, first.
I am happy to see what Ali E mentioned as far as jurists willing to work within what the current cultural context is. Perhaps my favorite was one of his commentors saying what I really need to hear: Sharia law won’t be applied to me, as a minority.
Kinzi thanks for your reply. I was curious about you.
LOL Tse, I swear you always crack me up!
To answer your questions:
“jurists are bound by their context; the world around them.
but isn’t that exactly the problem?”
How is that the problem? Contextualization is how it’s supposed to be.
“aren’t there ‘jurists’ around that wish to hold on to the past and not look at the context, the world around them?”
Yes defintely and the challenge is to make sure their numbers start decreasing.
Check out the update btw,
Me gotta run… Goodynite Tse
PS: Shalom is hello. What’s cya latter in Hebrew.
Allright sweetheart
here it comes:
leilatov = goodnight
Lehitraot = see you
bokertov = goodmorning
(How do you wanna decrease those ‘jurists’ that wanna hold on to the past?)
Has anyone bothered to read what hugh fitzgerald writes?
i mean RS isnt the answer, on the contrary, he’s preparing the groundwork for expulsions of ALL muslims.
Again, has anyone what jihadwatch vice-president Hugh Fitzgerald writes and posts on JW? RS posts his articles, supports him and has never one disagreed with his characterisation of Muslims as Nazis, the “hideous” Iraki people etc..
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