Sudan: Arab or African?

Posted on February 3, 2007
Filed Under Sudan, Sudanese |

Ingrid @ Sudan Watch asked the following question:

Since Sudan belongs to both the African Union and Arab League, I wonder if Sudanese women see Sudan as an African or Arab country.

Now even though I’m not a woman (Duh!), I’m still going to try and answer Ingrid’s question. Is Sudan an African or Arab country? In other words, are we Sudanese, African or Arab? It’s a tough question to answer for the simple reason that I’m only given the option of choosing between “Arab” or “African”. I don’t see Sudan as being either one or the other. There are about 600 tribes in Sudan. Yes, that’s right, 600 tribes! Ethnically, some are African, some are Afro-Arab and the few remaining others are Arab. Therefore Sudan is an Afro-Arab country. It’s as simple as that but I don’t believe that answers Ingrid’s question or does it? Well in case it doesn’t and I can only choose between “Arab” or “African”, then here are my thoughts. Sudanese girls and boys in da house, indulge me in the comments section if you may.

THE ETHNIC PERSPECTIVE

First of all, let’s discuss this issue from the perspective of ethnicity. Pictured at the bottom of this post are 2 Sudanese girls (aren’t they so cute and innocent). They represent both the far sides of the Sudanese ethnic spectrum. The first picture is of a girl from the Nuer tribe which is an African tribe from Southern Sudan, not Afro-Arab but African. The second is of a girl from the Rashaida tribe which is an Arab tribe from Eastern Sudan, not Afro-Arab but Arab. The Rashaida are the most recent Arab tribe to make into Sudan. They crossed the Red Sea from the Arabian Peninsula about 150 years ago and made it to the north eastern side of the country. Since they arrived recently, they haven’t intermarried with locals. It’s a known fact that a Rashaida father will almost never allow his daughter (or son) to marry outside of the tribe (the same is quite true for other tribes). As such, the Rashaida have remained purely Arab.

Now that both ends of the spectrum have been presented, allow me to further explain the main difference between them. What’s the main difference (besides the obvious)? Well here is the main difference: one is indigenous to the land and the other is not. Arab tribes came from the Arabian Peninsula while African tribes (Nuer, Dinka, Nuba, Nubians etc.) have been in Sudan for ages.

Let’s move on to the next point i.e. the Afro-Arab. “The Afro-Arab” is the product of intermarriage between Arab tribes and African tribes. I am a Northern Sudanese. Ethnically speaking I am a Shaigee. I am of mixed blood, mainly being Nubian, Nuba and Arab. The Nubian and Nuba in me are indigenous to Sudan. The Arab in me was an outsider that came, settled, assimilated into the Sudanese African ethnic pool and as a result made part of it Afro-Arab.

In the big context, it is “the African” that dominates. It’s very difficult finding many pure Arab tribes like the Rashaida in Sudan. They’re minorities. The majority are either African or Afro-Arab. Hence, ethnically speaking and in the big context we Sudanese are mainly African and not Arab. That’s also true for most Northern Sudanese. “The African” still dominates.

Whether we’re Arab or African, can’t be fully answered without taking into account how we Sudanese view ourselves though. For Southerners, that’s not a major issue. It’s simple. They’re Africans. For many Northern Sudanese however it gets a little complicated. Choosing either Arab or African is not easy. Here’s a little test for my Northern Sudanese Afro-Arab readers that should make it easier. Do you want to know how you can find out if you view yourself as more African than Arab or vice versa? Here’s how. Visualize the following and tell me which one you find more offensive.

a) A Persian guy shouting “Arabs are filthy dogs”.

b) Some KKK dude shouting “Africans are filthy niggers”.

For most Sudanese I asked, the answer was (b).

THE CULTURAL PERSPECTIVE

We’ve concluded that us Sudanese are mainly African in terms of ethnicity but what about culturally? In terms of culture are we Arab or African? Again, I’d say that for Southern Sudanese, this won’t be a major issue. Unlike many Northern Sudanese, they’re not suffering from an identity crisis. Southern Sudanese are both ethnically and culturally African but this is not really true for Northern Sudanese. For the Northern Sudanese who are dominantly ethnically Afro-Arab, it’s a different case. All Afro-Arab tribes in Sudan (and even some African ones) have been Arabized even if not fully (keep in mind that along with Arabization came Islamization and Islamic culture). Therefore culturally speaking Northern Sudanese are mainly Arab due to Arabization and not African.

In the big context, I believe that it is the Arab culture that dominates in Sudan. Yes, many Afro-Arab tribes have retained a lot of African traditions and have not been fully Arabized. Yes, the Arab culture in Sudan might be sort of loose but it is what ties many tribes together and is what’s common amongst them besides Islam. About 70% of Sudan’s population is Muslim. Moreover the majority of Sudanese also speak Arabic together with other languages. They’re multilingual.

CONCLUSION

Now this is the really difficult part. (Voice inside my head: damn it, why do you have to choose between Arab or African man? Why can’t you just choose both?). Well like I said at the start of my post. Sudan is an Afro-Arab country. It’s really that simple. However to which side do we belong more? If you as a Sudanese had to make a choice, which one would you choose? African or Arab?

As I’ve presented, ethnically speaking we Sudanese are mainly African but culturally we’re more Arab than African (thanks to Arabization). So, which one do we belong to more? Which one do we choose? In order to give an answer, I have to ask another question. Which one plays a bigger role in forming one’s identity? Would that be ethnicity or culture? For me, the answer is ethnicity.

A girl from the Neur, an African tribe (Malakal, Southern Sudan).
————————————————————————————-

A girl from the Rashaida, an Arab tribe. (East Sudan).

————————————————————————————

Comments

81 Responses to “Sudan: Arab or African?”

Marta on February 3rd, 2007 6:52 pm

Great post, congratulations. You have explained very clearly the ethnic/cultural backgrounds in Sudanese people. I knew that Sudan was arabized and that the arab-culture was more influential in the North but I didn’t know about the different tribes and the relation between them.
This is a very interesting issue as many other people are debating their ethnicity/cultural backgrounds, for instance the berbers in North Africa.
Guest on February 3rd, 2007 9:45 pm

I doubt the picture of the Nuer girl is actually Nuer. Her features are very different from a Nuer people.
halalhippie on February 3rd, 2007 10:12 pm

Great post, lovely girls. (and the African is veiled and the Arab is not) hmmmm….

Very thoughtful as always. You da man, Drima.
The Raccoon on February 3rd, 2007 11:12 pm

Great post, man!
beninmwangi on February 4th, 2007 12:18 am

Drima:

Bravo, Five Mics, Five Stars, perfect 10 out of 10 here. My friend you never stop amazing me with your marvelous insights. You have educated me so much, in one day. As you mentioned in the comment section of my blog, you are an entrepreneur. But, you are so versed on culture, societal issues, and the world at large. You could be a professor on such topics easily-ever the philosopher.

Also, as compared to the everyday person of America who has never left the borders, I have considered myself somewhat more familiar with Africa and the world at large. But, the Sudan has always been a bit of an enigma for me, because whenebver Sudan is described in the media it is from a very polarized picture frame of reference. One hears about the Arab north and the Black south or the Christian south. You’ve answered a big question for me here-thanks!
person on February 4th, 2007 12:55 am

I agree with guest that girl isn’t nuer.
howie on February 4th, 2007 4:09 am

Drima-

Nothing new about tribalism…if it isn’t racial, then it is ethnic, or religious…and of course within each of those groups we have our tribes.

And if we can’t get all excited about that…well …it can be like L.A. and other parts of the world I am sure…tribes are based on your neighborhood or maybe the school you attend…

The supposition that your “tribe” really has a lot to do about who you are is rubbish. I don’t much care about culture, or nationality or race…it is all entertaining to joke and talk about and yes, of course, aspects of these things do influence attitude and behavior.

But this is all about accident of birth. To me…your culture or nationality or race is NOTHING to be proud of nor is it anything to be ashamed of…because you did not earn it, work for it or choose…it just happened to you…you can only really have pride or shame in who and what you are.

But we make a big damn deal out of this shit…and not enough of a big damn deal about promoting goodness….goodness…period.
Precious on February 4th, 2007 6:53 am

Amazing post Drima.. I dont think anyone can put it better than you did..

I did write a little about it in a more personal prespective in my post ” African Roots or Arab Culture

Though I must say that howie do have a point when he said :”But this is all about accident of birth. To me…your culture or nationality or race is NOTHING to be proud of nor is it anything to be ashamed of…because you did not earn it, work for it or choose…it just happened to you…you can only really have pride or shame in who and what you are. ”

But then again, I am LOVING my African culture.. and commited to my Islamic Culture as well,, but the only things that relates me to Arabs, is the Language.. nothing else!!

And thats ofcourse is only my personal opinion on the matter..

Thanks for opening such an intresting topic.
The Ususal Suspect on February 4th, 2007 7:55 am

Interesting and thoughtful post Drima.
I have to ask- what is African? This question has come up time and time again in my work place as we talk about “Africans” as they are one homogenous group- Africa is a continent- made up of I don’t know how many countries (Drima you know how bad my geography is- Gobi Desert in Australia!!!).
So when we say African, what do we mean?
Black Kush on February 4th, 2007 12:36 pm

I amire your great efforts at explaining the unexplainable identity crisis of the Sudanese people. As a person from South Sudan, I know with out doubt am African, tall black and all Nilotic feaures.

I agree with the Guest above that the girl doesn’r look like Nuer o me either! Nuers are typically pitch black Drima. Unless if she is of mixed marriage! That google image smells of fraud.
Hipster on February 4th, 2007 1:02 pm

Wow, Drima, interesting, thought-provoking & insightful article!!! One of your best!

To answer your question, I think the scale would be more tipped towards (b).However, being an expat, am I choosing “African” because I was persecuted by the Arabs in the UAE despite having Arab friends?Would my answer be different if racism didn’t exist? I wonder….

Hmm, ethnically, I’m Nubain, Egyptian, Ethopian,Turkish & Kurdish.Culturally, I guess I’m an Arab Muslim although there are many Sudanese traditions that I have learned about only when I went to Sudan.
So to answer Ingrid’s question, I prefer to regard myself as an Afro-Arab.

One reservation though: Why don’t the North African countries face the same identity dilemma? They are Africans too yet they are regarded as Arabs?Is it due to their light-skinned complexion?
Somebody please fill me in.
Hipster on February 4th, 2007 1:04 pm

Pz, disregard the grammatical & punctuation mistakes.Grrr.
Hipster on February 4th, 2007 1:05 pm

Drima, why does it keep saying that my comments await moderation?
tsedek on February 4th, 2007 1:41 pm

Good explanation, Drima - thx
tsedek on February 4th, 2007 1:45 pm

Hipster moroccans are not seen as arabs but tamazighs - they very much want to make that clear. although arabs also mingle in with the population.
Drima on February 4th, 2007 3:25 pm

Halalhippie, LOL. Not every girl that covers her hair means she’s wearing a hijab. She’s just covering her hair probably because she had a bad hair day or something. It’s nothing religious dude.

Beninmwangi, my pleasure.

“it just happened to you…”

Howie, this post is meant to dig deeper about that “it”.

TUS, how u doing mate? I’m afraid to answer your question properly, I’m going to have to write another long post but a short answer would be this: Africans are people who are indigenous to Africa. Egyptians are Africans, or more accurately ancient Egyptians were Africans. Today’s are a mix of many things.

Black Kush, ya about the picture, I think the girl might be mixed. Her skin might seem too light for her to be Nuer but I have a southern friend who says he’s Nuer and his skin tone is just like hers so I figured she’s Nuer too (as Vit Hassan the photographer who took the picture also said).

http://flickr.com/photos/vithassan/108673269/

“Why don’t the North African countries face the same identity dilemma? They are Africans too yet they are regarded as Arabs?”

They do Hipster. Just ask Algerians, Morrocans or Libyans and see what they’ll tell you.

Thank you all for your feedback.
jonah84 on February 5th, 2007 3:07 am

Drima, this is very thoughtful article. I do believe countries which have recent admixtures tend to have some identity complex or crisis.

I wonder what percent population the “pure” Arab or “pure African” group make?

Another question does the fact a person speaks arabic make him an Arab?

When I was going to university, I noticed that Africans students from francophone countries tended to perceive themselves as “French” whereas those from Anglphone countries did not perceive themselves as “English”.

Of course, this could be baggage of colonization but most of those people I am talking about were born post independence era.

In terms of French form imperialism if person speaks French and accepts French culture no matter the physical appearance that person could become “French” usually at the expense of their native culture.

I wonder if something like that is at play in Sudanese Identity discussion. It is possible to equate Arabic language with French language and Islam with French Culture.

Is it possible for people to identify with “Arab” identity just for speaking the language?

I wonder percentage of egyptian population is truly Arabic.

Or did they become Arabic because they do not speak any other language?

For example, an another African country Eritrea has similar afro-arab admixture and even more mixed than Sudan but the country and people do not identify themselves as “Arabs”. In Eritrea Arabic is one of “working” language used but it is not the “official” language.

It seems in countries where the native language is maintained the Arab identity is not claimed even if there is a mixture i.e. Eritrea, ethiopia, Iran, pakistan, etc..
person on February 6th, 2007 5:28 am

Actually not all nuers are pitch black, it’s just her facial features are not common with any nuer subclan.
Hipster on February 6th, 2007 6:24 am

Tse & Drims,thankx for the feedback.
Noli Irritare Leones » Blog Archive » Shortage of AU peacekeepers for Darfur/China’s visit to Sudan/Links between conflicts in Darfur and Chad on February 7th, 2007 2:41 pm

[…] An interesting discussion of ethnicity in Sudan from Drima: Sudan: Arab or African? […]
Quinton Henderson on February 9th, 2007 9:39 pm

I am a 19 year old African American of Sudanese descent, and I have a burning question. I would like to know how much the Africans and Arabs in Sudan dislike each other. I personally Identify as being pure African, and I would like to see Sudan restore it’s original Ancient Nubian civilization fee of Arab influences. I am NOT and I repeat NOT a racist. I’m simply perplexed by the fact that during the Nubian era which predates Egypt by at least 5000 years, Our nation enjoyed a tremendously lengthy period as a major world civilization (contrary to conventional belief witch is only now being overturned) from Queen Candace’s bloodless repelling of Alexander the Great, to Taharqa’s successive conquests of Egypt, the Assyrians and his campaigns as far as Gibraltar, all occurred under Pure African administration. Islam and Arabs originally are alien to our society, and their introduction to our civilization was NOT peaceful. Arabs frequently tried to conquer our nation and failed militarily the majority of the time but, they brought with them Islam as diplomats and history has shown the decline of Sudanese civilization starting with the widespread acceptance of Islam. The point I’m trying to illustrate, is that we were FAR more prosperous affluent and in general powerful as a nation and people BEFORE we assimilated Arabs and their customs into our society. Our authentic culture propelled us to greatness in the past, so WHY do we allow a foreign set of traditions predominate over our nation? If I accidentally offended anyone reading this I sincerely apologize, but I don’t believe our society should completely neglect it’s glorious Nubian past in favor of a religion and people who we have had to repeatedly crush militarily just to sustain our state.
Drima on February 10th, 2007 12:27 pm

Bro, drop me an email in my inbox so I won’t forget to get back to u… i think i might write a whole post about this…
Rihab on February 10th, 2007 2:49 pm

i really hate our ongoing identity crisis, seriously, i think we are the most psychologically messed up ppl on the planet!

i did your test and i guess i’m more african since i’d be more offended at the nigger reference… but on a general level do i feel arab or african?? well, i’d say it depends on my mood lool! the sad thing is that although i meant that as a joke, it is partially true, somedays i feel a very strong affinity for arabs and other days it’s for africans. however, i would say i can relate more to arab culture than i can to african culture… in which case i perceive myself as culturally arab and racially african.

that being said, i think on a political level if we are serious about sudanese unity northerners need to try to let go of the over-attachment to arabs, and focus more on establishing a holistic sudanese identity.

… and one more point, i don’t think it’s true that people will only strictly marry from their own tribe, i think ppl from northern tribes are quite open to marrying other northern tribes.. i think issues occur when we’re talking about north/south marriages.
Don Cox on February 10th, 2007 5:16 pm

You might compare Sudan with New Zealand. Is NZ a European country or a Pacific country?

I think most of the North African countries can be seen as Arab colonies. The parallel with French colonialism and the Francophone African countries is quite close.

Whether colonialism is a good or bad thing in the long run is another question.
Quinton Henderson on February 12th, 2007 1:51 am

Yeah our Sudanese identity crisis is quite a mess. Good thing I don’t have it because I am undeniably pure African, but perhaps it is not as bad as we think. To my surprise I’ve found that many Arabs, Indians, Asians etc.. don’t dislike me as I previously thought the would. Along with the Sudanese issue, it was included that the Indian caste system was based on lighter skin at the top so I thought they all hated blacks. I was wrong, I asked my math teacher Mr. Patel and he said it didn’t exist. And they also said that most orientals disliked blacks because they are supposed to have a preference for lighter skin. I ‘m coming to see this as false as well. Assuming this was all true, I avoided them thinking we would only be enemies. I’m not a bad person, I simply thought that was true, and I don’t allow myself to be a victim of racism without an equal retaliation on my part. Theres even a gorgeous Egyptian girl in my computer class and she’s very friendly toward me. All in all, the media and eccentric human rights activist could be blowing this out of proportion. Oh and Drima, my email is gift397470@aol.com if you wanted to write another post regarding this matter.
Darfur Awareness - We blog for Darfur » Blog Archive » Arabs VS Africans? on February 19th, 2007 5:58 pm

[…] This post at The Sudanese Thinker might help shed some light on the complex issue of ethnicity in regards to the Darfur situation or Sudan as a whole. […]
Global Voices Online » Blog Archive » Sudan: Diversity And Identity Crisis on February 28th, 2007 1:16 pm

[…] Many of the posts on the Sudanese blogosphere during the past 2 weeks discussed Sudan’s diversity and also revolved around the issue of identity. Sudanese Thinker had an interesting post entitled “Sudan: Arab or African?” […]
Dj. Ram`mi`ran on March 1st, 2007 1:54 pm

Wow, that gurl is not even close features as a nuer tribe…where do they get the picture?
Mideast Youth - Thinking Ahead » Blog Archive » Darfur’s ICC Suspect & the Oversimplification of the Darfur Conflict on March 2nd, 2007 1:30 pm

[…] Does he look Arab to you? He doesn’t to me. In fact he looks Darfurian. But is he really? If yes, it would mean he’s either an Afro-Arab or an Arabized African. “Darfur is a genocide perpetrated by Arabs against Africans” is an oversimplification of what’s really happening. I hope the picture above is more proof of this. Furthermore, in an interview with the Sudanese newspaper Akhbar al-Youm, Ahmed mentioned something which I found quite odd. […]
Sarah on March 2nd, 2007 2:25 pm

i actually dont agree with the concept of sudanese arabs being afro arabs at least not all of them,as a matter of fact i origianally come from northern(al shimaliyah,and no im not nubian!) and let me tell u i look arab so do the people of my family,some dark skinned but with arab caucasian facial features and u no what ive seen sudanese who look germanic and there parents arent mixed they actually look more european than arab. enough said
Sarah on March 2nd, 2007 2:27 pm

to add to that,there parents have different ancestries (like me bieng arab or predomenantly arab) but they are still sudanese
ashenafi on March 3rd, 2007 8:39 am

I repeat you Sudanese are African. I repeat you sudanese are African.
Love yourself.
Mohamed on March 3rd, 2007 6:21 pm

I think it would be a lot easier for Sudan to be African. I wish it would drop the whole ‘Arab’ business and become what it should have been. I agree with you that ethnicity plays a larger role — you can always learn a new culture.
全球之聲 » Blog Archive » 蘇丹:多元與認同的危機 on March 7th, 2007 12:55 pm

[…] 最近兩個星期在[蘇丹]的部落格圈裡許多文章討論著蘇丹的多元性以及圍繞著認同的相關議題。Sudanese Thinker有一篇以「蘇丹人：阿拉伯人或非洲人？」為標題的有趣文章。 […]
Ahmad al-Safawi on March 15th, 2007 4:00 pm

I am a european citizen of mixed Egyptian ancestry, my mother is from Alexandria (light skin) and my father is from Aswan (dark skin). It is wrong to claim that North Africa is colonized by arabs. In fact, you really cannot know 100% how much of the DNA of the north african population is nubian, sub-saharan, berber & arab. You cannot either know how much of it is greek or roman. I think that a big percentage of the Population of Lower Egypt and Libya might be Arab by DNA, while most of Morcco and Algeria might be berber by DNA, and most of Upper Egypt might be nubian, but we’ll never find out excactly how many.

When my mother is from Lower Egypt, and my father is from Upper Egypt, then what am i? Most of the features of my fathers family assemble africans, and most of the features of my mothers family assemble arabs and even europeans. The same might apply for many people in all of Northern Africa - many moroccans might be mixed between berber and arab ancestors, and many northeners in Sudan might be mixed with different tribes - arabs, nubians and others alltogether. Thus ethnicity cannot be based on DNA entirely, especially not in this case where the population is so mixed.

No nubian is less sudanese than an arab, because historically, Sudan did not exist. The african south was never united with the nubian north in the past! This only happended due to british colonism, and nothing else, and at that time, many arabs were living in the north and the east.

If North Africa is that mixed, then what is our correct ethnicity, if it cannot be based on DNA entirely? Are we Algerians, Egyptians and Sudanese people? Are we arabs, berbers, nubians and africans?

First of all, 90% of Egypts population and 70% of Sudans, is muslim. Over 95% of the population in Morocco, Mauritania, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya is muslim. Thus it is correct to say the Islam is the major religion in Northern Africa.

One would say that this does not answer the question about our ethnicity, but yes, is does! The Prophet of Islam, Muhammad (saw) said: “Being an arab is not something you inherit from your mother or your father, it is just a language that is spoking. So whoever speaks arabic, he is an arab”. It is well known that this was refering to Bilal the Ethiopian, Salman the Persian and Suhayb the Roman, which were’nt arab in any way ethnically!

If aryans such as persians and romans can become arabs by speaking the language, the same is true for africans.

So all muslims in Nothern Africa who speaks arabic, then they are arabs! Dark skin & frizzy hair does not make the words of our Prophet (saw) invalid, this was the feature of Bilal al-Habashi, and according to the Prophet (saw), he was Arab!

All sudanese muslims who speaks arabic, is arabs, along with all other north african people.
Elshadi on March 16th, 2007 7:49 pm

How can sudanese be exclusively african when arabic is the official language? if we were to count on genetics only, only the population of the Arabian Peninsula and parts of the Mashriq would be arabic today, which is certainly not the case. In fact the Arab league consists mainly of nations outside the Arabic peninsula (including Somalia!) So if Lebanon can be arab, then Sudan can be arab too!

yubqa al7ob yejma3 Al-Sudan inchallah
Drima on March 17th, 2007 5:32 am

Wow! I didn’t know this post was still attracting new comments!!
The Sudanese Thinker » Sudan: Arab or African? (The Debate Continues) on March 17th, 2007 6:06 am

[…] I had no idea that the post was still attracting new comments. I read it one more time and I realized that I could have mentioned something important. Sudan’s minorities. I only spoke in terms of Arab/African but mentioned nothing about ethnic minorities who do/did contribute to Sudan’s diverse ethnic pool. Maybe I’ll write something about that in the future. […]
moroccan on March 30th, 2007 4:01 pm

The overwhelming majority of Moroccans and Algerians are Berbers/Amazigh. This has a genetic basis – the people of North West Africa (Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia and some of Mauritania) for the most part are ethnically separate from both Arabs and Africans although both groups have intermarried with the Berber peoples.

Intermarriage is good for the health of a population in respect of genetics.
neamah on April 6th, 2007 1:32 pm

let me make this clear,
sudan is a massive country with so many different people withe different ancestries ranging from the trurks to the sub saharan africans,so basically since the official language is arabic,culturewise:Arab,ethic wise:an indivisual thing,I have met sudanese with ancestors from the arabian peninsuala,i have met ones with turkish ancestors,i have met copts,nubians,black africans etc. i have even read of armenian people who are sudaneeas a matter of fact i met a young girl she is sudanese,claiming she is origianally from the northern province of sudan when i look at her i get all kinds of ideas in my head:she can be pakistani,yemeni,turkish,portugese,hispanic,whatever,mediterranean.so you guys sudan is a large country with a large spectrum of people so whatever you are be proud
sweh on April 8th, 2007 9:00 pm

Arabs are invaders living on land they do not belong to its like that group of people he posted that were perdecuted from saudi arabia they go to other countries think they are better and try run things and eventually take it over.

think of the things palestinians say about jews can be said about arabs in africa who press their beliefs on african people or even kill them, and lets not forget arab nationalism, theres 21 arab countries abd what would these arabs contries do to africans if african people heavily migrated to many arab countries?

What has arabs done positve in africa past and or present?
they mostly force their ideas on people.

and sudanese ppl are not african americans, african americans are a ethnic group of americans of african descent. sudanese people in america are sudanese american.

642: the Arabs conquer Egypt (mainly monophysite) from Byzantium, destroy the library of Alexandria and found the first mosque in Africa, Amr Ebn El Aas Mosque (the site of future Cairo)
647: the Arabs expand in nothern Africa
670: the Arabs led by Uqba ibn Nafi fight the Berbers in northern Africa
Egyptian ruler Mehemet Ali conquers Sudan on behalf of the Ottoman empire

1941: the Ba’ ath Party is founded in Damascus by Michel Aflaq and Salah al-Din Bitar with the mission to unify the whole Arab world in one Arab country

1945: The League of Arab States is formed by the independent Arab countries (Egypt, Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia, Yemen)
1947: the Baath Arab Socialist party is founded in Syria by Michel Aflaq with an emphasis on Arab nationalism
1961: Nasser of Egypt launches a program of “Arab socialism
1962: Saudi Arabia abolishes slavery

ARAB, PERSIAN, TURKIC TIMELINE
http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/arabic.html
sweh on April 8th, 2007 9:08 pm

http://www.memri.org/bin/opener_latest.cgi?ID=SD153507
Surfinit on April 14th, 2007 12:29 am

Umm..HI
Well this is really interesting. I’m Sudanese, but I’ve never lived there,I’ve only be on visits. I was born in Saudia Arabia and now live in Colorado. The first post was amazing and really through however I don’t think it applies to all Sudanese people. It would be nice to know what you really are but I don’t think that’s really possible…Personally, I consider myself Arab. I know for a fact that my grandfather’s ( my mom’s dad) acenstory is pure Arab. My Grandmother (mom’s mom)is straight from Morocco. My dad is from El- Obied, Sudan they might be Afro- Arab… but they also trace their ancestory to the Arabian pennisula…my point is that it depends. Libya,Morocco Egypt and so on are easily accept by conteries in Arabian penisula as Arabs because they have lighter skin tone, I’d like to know why Sudanese people aren’t regarded as Arabs then?
Moe on April 16th, 2007 4:13 pm

You are in africa, you are AFRICAN
You speak arabic, you are ARAB
Your culture is afro-arab, you are AFRO-ARAB

You have a problem, may the arabs and the africans help you resolve it. But they wont, you have only your selfs this times. So let me try agian, may THE SUDANESE help you.

You have so much in common, but you onley like to se the difference, that is your (and many others) problem today, instead look for what unites you.

what ever you chose or are, you will always have friends from the “arab world” (the people) and the african world, we are eternal neighbours (includes african, arab-african and arab sudanese).

For DRIMA
What about the OIL and foreign interference…,?

One last word, if you are one then you are one, if you are two or more then you are two or more, and not one less.

VIVA LA SUDAN! from palestine
Wilberto on April 17th, 2007 11:25 am

Drima said:
First of all, let’s discuss this issue from the perspective of ethnicity. Pictured at the bottom of this post are 2 Sudanese girls (aren’t they so cute and innocent). They represent both the far sides of the Sudanese ethnic spectrum. The first picture is of a girl from the Nuer tribe which is an African tribe from Southern Sudan, not Afro-Arab but African. The second is of a girl from the Rashaida tribe which is an Arab tribe from Eastern Sudan, not Afro-Arab but Arab.

Wilberto says,
There are over 40 million Sudanese, the pure Arab Rashaida tribe numbers only 70,000. Thats a negligible figure, not worthy of mentioning. Go here for picture of Sudanese Arabs and all other ethnic groups in the Sudan.
http://www.sudan101.com/sud_arabs.htm
Wilberto on April 17th, 2007 11:34 am

Dj. Ram`mi`ran Says:

March 1st, 2007 at 1:54 pm
Wow, that gurl is not even close features as a nuer tribe…where do they get the picture?

LOL! Thats a good question. See Nuers here: ( click on Nuer in the “People Groups.” http://www.sudan101.com/people_groups.htm
wawawa on April 20th, 2007 10:16 am

btw great post that i didnt know
but..im sudanese and i consider myself as an arab yes i do have darker skin them the ancient arabs like many sudanese people
but i speak arabic(as my native language) my family follow the arab and islamic culture
my conclusion is that sudan is neither its mixed the south are africans and the north is arab (thats if you follow arab culture)
p.s…i find it stupid that the govenment in sudan is making such a big problem just to ‘arabize’ the country its up to the southerners, you cant force them to hange culture,religion and lifestyle.
The Sudanese Thinker » More On Northern Sudanese Identity Crisis on May 13th, 2007 4:45 pm

[…] The following excerpt is related to my previous post “Sudan: African or Arab“: The second element of the crisis of identity in Northern Sudan is concerning “ambiguity” about identity. Northerners came face to face with this symptom especially in Europe and America where people are classified into ethnic and social categories. In 1990, a group of Northern Sudanese in Birmingham in Britain convened a meeting to discuss how to fill in the Local Council’s Form, and especially the question about the social category. They felt that they did not fit in any of the categories that include, among others, “White, Afro-Caribbean, Asian, Black African, and Others”. It was clear to them to tick on “Others”, but what was not clear was whether to specify as “Sudanese, Sudanese Arab, or just Arab”. There was a heated discussion before they finally settled on “Sudanese Arab”. When the question why not to tick on the category of Black African was raised, the immediate response was that, “but we are not blacks”. When another question raised the point why not just say Sudanese, the answer was that: “Sudanese include Northerners and Southerners, and, therefore, does not give an accurate description of us”. Ambiguity about identity was also observed in the feeling of dismay Northerners usually experience when they discover, for the first time, that they are considered blacks in Europe and America. It is also observed in their attitude towards the black communities there. To be called black was a shocking experience to the average Northern individual. Southerners usually joke by saying to their Northern friends “thank God here we are all blacks” and its variant “here we are all abid“. Northerners attitude towards the black population in these countries is similar to their attitude towards the Southerners. They usually refer to them by the word “abid“, and one of my interviewees, once, referred to the Afro Caribbeans as Southerners “janubiyyin“. […]
sweh on May 13th, 2007 11:48 pm

the reason why many countries outside of the penisula speak arabic is because of force why is it that people who are not genetically arab dont fight arab conlonist?

-have it ever wonder to you why they changed the meaning of arab? maybe to increase their numbers. but the fact is ther are millions whom are not arab by genetics but speak arabic and is muslim,
Adeleke,A.A. on May 14th, 2007 6:09 am

Can you imagine the impact of Afro-Arab unitry on the possible “United States of Africa.
Ahmad al-Safawi on May 26th, 2007 8:19 pm

sweh: This was not something that arabs “changes”. It was always like that since the time of our prophet (S): Whoever speaks arabic, then he is arab. This is decreasing the value of what you are favoring, namely Nationalism.

My wish for all sudanese people is that the stop hating each other and that they atleast try (even though it is quite another case) to deal with the North/South as we deal with it in Egypt. Or in the words of Samira Said: Kollena Ensan! O sudanese people, by all my heart i wish a bright future for your country.
des_pes on May 28th, 2007 6:44 am

Sudanese people go back and read your History. North Sudanese, Nubians were same people as ancient black Egyptians. Similar religion. While the extreme north was taken by the Romans the southern part flourished for centuries until annexed by Axum. When axum declined various Christian tribe arose influenced by Byzantium connections. The Arabs later invaded and converted you to Islam and Arabic was imposed on you. How does that make you Arabs? You are dark in complexion, no different that the people of the horn. Why would you dare deny your Africaness and associate yourself to a backward people like Arabs who sometimes go as far as calling you niggers? There are more Arab looking people in Ethiopia and Eritrea than you and they don’t dare call themselves Arabs, as the word Arab instigate the word “filth” Fuck Arabs and their backward oppressive culture.
des_pes on May 28th, 2007 7:11 am

The sooner you North Sudanese stop this bullshit of being Arab, the better it is for you, for one you will dissociate yourselves from Arabs and their backward culture and doctrine, lazy, stupid and oil drenched mofos. Second, the huge part of Sudan is not even Muslim. For you northerners to even try and Arabize them its a shame, you confused yourselves and you try to impose that confused outlook on them. Free yourselves from this enslaved mentality and the horn will be in a better shape for good. One more point, if you were born in Africa, and your Parents are from Africa you are African. end of discussion. We know these light skinned northern countries in the Sahara are are trying to dissociate themselves from the rest of Africa, but if your ass is in Africa, you are African.
Drima on May 28th, 2007 7:28 am

des_pes, I welcome opinions as extreme as they maybe but could you please refrain from using insults?

thanks.
des_pes on May 28th, 2007 7:57 am

Sorry, my emotions flooded by brain. I do not like Arabs and when my own Africans claim to be Arabs I went overboard. There is other discussion I am part of where Arabs calling Black African Muslims names. So that is the reason, you will not find my posts containing bad language from here on.
Drima on May 28th, 2007 8:10 am

Thanks man, I appreciate it

I’m for free speech and everything but let’s just keep it healthy.
des_pes on May 28th, 2007 8:11 am

Here is another example, do South African whites consider themselves European? leaving all other matter aside, here these people consider themselves Africans. What’s with you Sudanese? My point is, there is no positive gained by being Arab, 1. you are not, 2. keeping this confused outlook will only bring misery to your country.
Ahmad al-Safawi on June 3rd, 2007 10:10 am

So, des_pes, according to you, i am also African, even though i am egyptian, a little fair skinned and most certainly Arab? According to you, New Zealand is a polynesian country, and everybody residing there is polynesian, regardless of their origin and their culture?

No man, it is not that simple. Being an arab has nothing to do with being backwards. Man, if you are trying to make this a competition between Arabs and Africans in culture and civilization, then the result is certain for everybody. But hey - that does not mean anything. We are all equal in the sight of God.

And by the way, Nubians and the ancient egyptians aint not the same people, egyptians being hamitic while nubians being nilochadic.
Enjoylife !!! on June 3rd, 2007 2:17 pm

Ahmad al-Safawi

Egyptians are hamitic which means from Ham. Also, the first pharaoh was black. Arabs and the rest of the world are always trying to seperate blacks from Egypt. Just stop it. Do your research.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Biblical_Cush
–The term Cushite or Cushi (כושי) for black-skinned people

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamitic
–Ham’s sons were said to have fathered the peoples of Africa.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kush
–In the Bible and archaically a large region covering northern Sudan, southern Egypt, and parts of Ethiopia, Eritrea, and Somalia were known as Cush
Enjoylife !!! on June 3rd, 2007 3:00 pm

Yes, Cush is from Ham by the way, the son of Ham.

If you are born in Africa, you are African. Do not attempt to say you are Sudanese and Arab but not African.

Ahmad al-Safawi: If I have now learnt to speak Arabic, does that make me an Arab now??? No, that is completely wrong. Africa is a black land not divided by the desert ( sub-Sahara ). Arabs came after, AND YES, including Egypt.

In terms of Ethnicity of Sudan, if you are Nubian, that is true Sudanese, and there is no argument. If you are anything other than that, you came afterwards and have mixed-Afro-Arabs, or are just straight Arabs who try to claim they are Sudanese, but are not indigenous to that land but are from the Arabian-Peninsula.

It is now a mixed society now, Nubian, Afro-Arab and Arab. Yes you were all born there, but the truth is, black are indigenous, anything else isn’t. If you are anything different to the indigenous inhabitants, you are Sudanese only by birth place. The culture was imported by Arabs, and is not true Sudanese.

Sudanese were more similar to Egyptians which again proves they are black. If the Egyptians speak Arabic and the ancient Egyptians never, doesn’t that mean the Arabs brought that in. Egyptians had their own language which was similar to Sudan along side culture, thus making my point stand.

Drima 100% accurate with his post.
SWEH on June 5th, 2007 4:34 am

http://www.sudan101.com/people_groups.htm

The Masalit of Sudan

The Masalit are a 250,000 strong non-Arab people group living in the most remote and unknown areas of the North African countries of Sudan and Chad. Approximately 140,000 of these live in Sudan, primarily in the west near the border with Chad. The Masalit developed a reputation for being fiercely independent—they had their own language and customs, produced everything they needed to survive and were capable of defending their own borders. In more recent years, however, political, economic and cultural processes have brought them into increasing contact with the outside world.

The Jaaliyin of Sudan

The Jaaliyin claim to be direct descendants of the prophet Mohammed, the founder of the Islamic faith. It seems more likely, however, that their original ancestors are the Nubians and that the Jaaliyin gradually adopted the Arab culture.

The Sudanese Arabs

The Sudanese Arabs find their heritage in the Bedouin who wandered the deserts of Saudi Arabia centuries ago. They are now a diverse group of 16 million people who find their commonality in the language of Arabic and the religion of the Islamic prophet Mohammed. The largest people group living in the North African country of Sudan, they have spread throughout the countries of North Africa and the Middle East, but a majority can be found living in either Sudan or Egypt. While three million of those living in Sudan belong to the supratribes of the Jahayna or Jaaliyin, the rest can be found primarily by their self-identification as an Arab from Sudan, rather than as a member of a specific tribe or people group. The single thread of a common culture binds these Sudanese Arabs with other Arabs from around the world. Aspects of pure Arab life, such as rigid codes of honor, loyalty and hospitality, have remained strong in the Sudanese Arab culture.

Although some Sudanese Arabs have continued living in the nomadic style of their ancestors and others live in urbanized towns, the majority live in small rural villages, where they grow grains, vegetables and cotton and raise livestock. Although farming is the chief occupation of the villagers, some have jobs as religious leaders or skilled carpenters or tailors.

The role of men in the Sudanese Arab society, as in all other Arabic cultures, is extremely important. Children, and especially male children, are highly valued. Women are in a subservient position but are more liberal and dress more freely than many of their counterparts around the world.

As with other Arabic societies, hospitality is an important part of the culture. One characteristic of Sudanese Arab culture is the coffee ceremony, which welcomes guests by serving them coffee in an elaborate presentation.

Their Religion

Islam is the religion of the majority of Arabs, and like their counterparts, most Sudanese Arabs devoutly embrace the Islamic faith. It is very common to find them stopping and bowing to pray whenever the call to prayer is heard, whether they are on the roadside or in their shop or business. They also practice the other four pillars of Islam, including the ritual fasting and the pilgrimage to the holy city of Mecca. The rules that govern society, including regulations concerning marriage, divorce, inheritance, taxation and warfare, are all found in Islam’s holy book, the Koran.

The historical link between Arabs and the Muslim religion is still strong. There are few Sudanese Arab Christians, and converts are not well-accepted. While there have been Christian workers in Sudan for many years, most concentrate on reaching Southern Sudanese and neglect the country’s Muslim majority.

The Fur of Sudan

Centuries ago, the old Fur sultans (political rulers) used to derive power from direct and indirect control over the trade of ebony, ivory, spices, rich cloth, slaves and other goods from Darfur to Egypt over the so-called Forty Days Road (Darb al-Arba’een). Today, the Fur are politically associated with the North African country of Sudan, yet they still maintain their tribal solidarity, and are committed Muslims who pride themselves on the fact that they brought Islam to the west of Sudan.

Remarkably, the Fur maintained their independence until the year 1916, when the ruling sultan was defeated by the British and the province was politically integrated into Sudan. It is the Fur language that sets this group apart from surrounding tribes, yet as the decades pass on, many Fur have become increasingly Arabized, especially those who move to the cities and regularly speak Sudanese Arabic, the language of politics, trade and commerce. Despite this Arabization and Islamization, however, the Fur continue to maintain cultural and political consciousness, and their traditions are still very much alive.

The Rashaida(immigrants from saudi arabia)

The Rashaida are closely related to the Saudi Arabia Bedouin, who migrated to Sudan from the Arabian Peninsula about 150 years ago. Many Rashaida also live in the neighboring country of Eritrea; in fact, they make up five percent of the population of Eritrea (3.75 million people). In Sudan, they number around 68,000, and live mostly in the northeast part of the country on the outskirts of the city of Kassala, one of the most frequently visited spots in Sudan.

The Rashaida are a nomadic people who live in tents made of goatskins. They are herdsmen, breeding primarily goats and sheep. Since they are largely illiterate, they memorize in great detail the pedigree of their animals, keeping mental records of their herds over seven or eight preceding generations of the flock, although they usually only emphasize the female lines.

Besides herding, the Rashaida also gain income through jewelry making. It is the veiled Rashaida women who craft much of the silver jewelry sold in the Kassala souq, or market, which is said to be one of the best in Sudan. Along with the jewelry, the Kassala souq supposedly markets some of the best and juiciest fruits Sudan has to offer.

The Nubian People

Location: Historically Nubia extended from Dongola, in northern Sudan, up the Nile to Aswan in southern Egypt. Today Nubians are concentrated in three cities: Kom Ombo in Southern Egypt, and Wadi Halfa and Khashm el-Girba in Sudan.

History: Nubians have a proud and rich heritage. They existed long before the pharaohs, and were once a Christian people. In 580 AD, Christianity became the official religion of Nubia.

Eight years after the death of Mohammed in 632 AD, Arab conquerors carried Islam into Egypt. Over the next two years, Muslim Arabs invaded Nubia. After conquering the Nubian city of Dongola, the Arab general made a treaty with the Nubian king. This treaty re-established trade along the Nile routes, and allowed Nubia to remain Christian for the next six centuries. Terms of this treaty required the Nubians to send 400 slaves per year to the Arabs, while the Arabs returned horses, cloth, and other goods.

Nubia gave way to Islam in the 16th Century as the last Christian church was closed. As it is illegal for Muslims to enslave a fellow Muslim, conversion freed the Nubians from the bond of slavery.

The Aswan Dam was built in stages beginning in 1902. Completion of the High Dam in the 1960s formed Lake Nasser, and flooded the Nubian homelands. Nubians in Egypt were relocated to the Kom Ombo area, north of Aswan. Nubians in Sudan were moved to Khashm el-Girba. Some Nubians remained in the Wadi Halfa area in far northern Sudan.

Identity: Nubians are a non-Arab Muslim people who once lived in the historic region of Nubia. Nubians have dark skin and are visibly distinct from their Egyptian neighbors. Today, Nubians belong to two major societies, the Kenuzi and the Fedidja.

Language: The Kenuzi speak Kenuzi-Dongolawi while the Fedidja speak Fedidja-Mahas. There is also a group within the Nubians who have become Arabicized to the point that their first language is now Arabic. Most of the men today are bilingual, speaking their Nubian language and Arabic. The women are less likely to speak Arabic, especially at home.

Religion: The Nubians are 100% Sunni Muslim. Islam is the only religion legally permitted.

What kind of people spend 15-25 percent of their monthly income on coffee, sing songs about camels and have a glorious crown of fuzzy hair atop their head? The Beja, a nomadic people group with a million and a half members who live in the northeastern portion of the African nation of Sudan.

Eastern Sudan has been the homeland of the Beja since the days of the pharaohs 4,000 years ago. Despite contact with the Egyptians, along with Greeks and Romans, it was the Muslims who finally had a real and lasting impression on the Beja. Although the Beja had partially accepted Christianity in 500 A.D., their conversion was only skin deep and beginning in 640 A.D., when Arabs first invaded Sudan, the Beja began to gradually adopt the Islamic faith. The Arabs did not conquer Sudan, and although many Beja tribes still do not speak Arabic, Islam left a lasting impact on their lifestyle, customs and religious practices.

In general, the Beja have always rejected authority and they greatly value their nomadic freedom. For the most part they have not changed their lifestyle or practices in the last 1,500 years

Cattle and War - The Nuer of Sudan

Numbering approximately one million, the Nuer are the second largest people group (second to the Dinka) in south Sudan. Traditionally, they are cattle herders whose complete way of life revolves around their livestock. Cattle are used for payment of fines and debts and as bride prices in marriage. Children mold clay figures of cows out of clay, ash, wood or any other available material. Young boys have a favorite ox who they give a name and treat as if it was a puppy.

Unfortunately, Sudan’s civil war, which has lasted for over a decade, has devastated this traditional way of life and displaced many Nuer to the safety of the neighboring country of Ethiopia or to places in northern Sudan, such as the capital city of Khartoum. Many Nuer serve with the Sudanese rebel army, although some are at odds with the rebel leader, a member of the Dinka tribe. In the past, war and tribal fighting has broken out between Nuer and their Dinka neighbors.

The Dinka of Sudan

A missionary entered a small Bible school in Khartoum, Sudan. He approached the class of 24 students, including members of the Dinka tribe. Interested in seeing what the students were learning, he asked the class of young evangelists to tell him how he could become a Christian. “None of the 24 could tell me!” he exclaimed in dismay.

Unfortunately, although many of the 2,800,000 Dinka in the North African country of Sudan have been evangelized, much of what they know is head knowledge about Jesus, rather than clear understanding of what accepting Christ is all about. They are in need of sound Christian teaching and Christian compassion.

The Dinka are a tall, thin and very dark skinned people who are found mostly in southern Sudan along the Nile River and into the countryside, generally to the west. There are about five distinctive groups of Dinka. They are the largest people group in the south and make up about ten percent of Sudan’s total popu-lation. Despite this fact, however, they are looked down upon by many other Sudanese, particularly those with lighter skin. They are also rejected by other Sudanese people because of their leadership in the civil war that has ravaged the country for over a decade. The Dinka make up a majority of the rebel army, and in fact John Garang, the rebel leader, is a Dinka.

In this Islamic nation, the Dinka are also rejected because they are Christians, although many claim to be Christians only so they will not be identified as Muslim. Many are Catholic and have mixed Christianity with traditional African religions, while some still follow animistic practices.

The Dinka are traditionally cattle herders. They give their cows names, and sometimes a herder will take the name of his favorite cow and prefer to be called by that name. They are a poor people and the Islamic government in Sudan has limited their opportunities even more.

The civil war in Sudan has been hard on the Dinka. Many families have at least one relative who was killed while fighting the government forces. Even if a Dinka is not involved in the war, people automatically assume he is a rebel just because he is a Dinka. Some Dinka herds have been taken by renegade bands with no clear indication of whose side they are on.

The Nuba Mountain People of Sudan

The Nuba people reside in one of the most remote and inaccessible places in all of Sudan–the foothills of the Nuba Mountains in central Sudan. At one time the area was considered a place of refuge, bringing together people of many different tongues and backgrounds who were fleeing oppressive governments and slave traders. As a result, over 100 hundred languages are spoken in the area and are considered Nuba languages, although many of the Nuba also speak Sudanese Arabic, the official language of Sudan.

The Nuba Mountains mark the southern border of the sands of the desert and the northern limit of good soils washed down by the Nile River. Many Nubas, however, have migrated to the Sudanese capital of Khartoum to escape persecution and the effects of Sudan’s civil war. Most of the rest of the 1,000,000 Nuba people live in villages of between 1,000 and 50,000 inhabitants in areas in and surrounding the Nuba mountains. Nuba villages are often built where valleys run from the hills out on to the surrounding plains, because water is easier to find at such points and wells can be used all year long. There is no political unity among the various Nuba groups who live on the hills. Often the villages do not have chiefs but are instead organized into clans or extended family groups with village authority left in the hands of clan elders.

The Nuba people are primarily farmers, as well as herders who keep cattle, goats, chickens and other domestic animals. They often maintain three different farms: a garden near their house where vegetables needing constant attention, such as onions, peppers and beans, are grown; fields further up the hills where quick growing crops such as red millet can be cultivated without irrigation; and farms farther away, where white millet and other crops are planted. A distinctive characteristic of the Nubas is their passion for athletic competition, particularly traditional wrestling. The strongest young men of a community compete with athletes from other villages for the chance to promote their personal and their village’s pride and strength. In some villages, older men participate in club- or spear-fighting contests. The Nubas’ passion for physical excellence is also displayed through the young men’s vanity—they often spend hours painting their bodies with complex patterns and decorations. This vanity reflects the basic Nuba belief in the power and importance of strength and beauty.

The majority of the Nuba–those living in the east, west and northern parts of the mountains–are Muslims, while those living to the south are either Christians or practice traditional animistic religions. In those areas of the Nuba mountains where Islam has not deeply penetrated, ritual specialists and priests hold as much control as the clan elders, for it is they who are responsible for rain control, keeping the peace, and rituals to insure successful crops. Many are guardians of the shrines where items are kept to insure positive outcomes of the rituals (such as rain stones for the rain magic), and some also undergo spiritual possession.

Because of their unique culture and overall poor job at conformity, both the Muslim and Christian Nubas face the most fierce persecution found in Sudan. On the other hand, those Nuba who are Christians are most likely the strongest believers in Sudan, and the Christian leaders are the boldest to be found in the country. At the same time, however, Nuba Muslims are probably the least accessible people, not only in Sudan but in all of Africa
Daniel on August 3rd, 2007 8:39 pm

I have to say, that I could not agree with you in 100% regarding : Arab or African? : The Sudanese Thinker, but it’s just my opinion, which could be wrong
Ahmad al-Safawi on August 4th, 2007 3:57 pm

Now let me tell you. As i wrote hamitic, i were talking linguistic - the branch of the Afroasian language family that is NOT semitic. That is Coptic, Berber, Somali, Oromo etc. etc. etc…

Nubian is not one of those. I have nubian ancestors myself.

The Coptic language is in fact very different from the Nubian one - the Coptic language being Afroasian (like Amharic, Hebrew, Arabic, Somali etc.), while the Nubian being Nilochadic. It is thus wrong to say that Nubian and the Ancient Egyptians were one. Yes, Nubians has for centuries lived in what is today Egypt, and Nubians have even ruled Egypt - but that does not make the Nubians and the Egyptians one.

My fathers family assembles africans, and my mothers family assembles arabs or southers europeans. Am i lesser Egyptians because of my mothers ancestors? Or am i lesser Arab because of my fathers ancestors?

No to both. I am both.

And yes, if you are muslim, then you will automatically be arab if you speak arabic. That was true for Suhayb, Salman and Bilal, and it is true for you and me too. Being an arab is not something that you inherit from your parents.

Then what about the berber? They are indegneous Africans too. That does not mean that they are black.

Being an African is not a matter of color. It is a matter about were you are born.

In same way, you can be a black american, and a black european. You can also be a black arab. And yes - A white african too.

I am AFRICAN, because i am born in a part of Egypt situated in Africa.
I am ARAB, because that is my primary language and my culture is arabic.
I am MUSLIM, because of my belief.
and…
I AM EGYPTIAN!

I will remain these, even if you may hate it.
fouad on August 23rd, 2007 6:47 am

I have always believed that arabs and africans are cousins if not brothers because of many factors. I mean we all know the story of Abraham and Hagar. She bore him his first son Ismail who would become the father of the arabs. Hagar was an African servant,and Abraham was a semit. Therefor, arabs are pretty much the product of the medeteranian ethnicity and the african ethnicity. Also, Afria’s closest neighbor happens to be the arabian peninsula. Now, we all know that the black or african gene is dominant especially compared to the white genetic, however arabic genetics are very dominant as well. Infact when arabs and blacks have offspring despite the dominant tendancies of the black genes there are times when the arabic genetics is very visible. I am not saying this is a constant nor that the arab gene is stronger then the black gene because scientificly the black genes are the most dominant. I just believe that in the end the black man of africa, along with the lighter african from north africa and the people of the middle east and arabia are all family and that there should be no need to try and draw lines and borders between which is which and who is what. take me for example look for your self www.myspace.com/afrotitan I am of mixed ethnicities I am north african, palestinian and turkish. I have very light skin yet incredibly nappy hair and its red! What do i consider myself? I consider myself over all as a muslim afro arabian because I have african features, my father traces his roots back to north africa, i speak arabic, my mother traces her roots back to palestine, and i also have some turkish heritage. I understand that some africans want to assert their individuality by pushing away any arab roots they have. I also know that there is cruelty from all races especially towards the africans and that there have been arabs that have made money off of slave trading however, let us not forget that there were the blackest of africans who sold their own people for hundereds of years to the white man. So, instead of arguing about who is african and who is arab we need to come to the realiziation that we(meaning blacks and arabs) are both truly brothers and both the followers of God. This is why Allah wants someone to identify themselves as a muslim rather then an ethnic group so their can be no disunity in the umma(community). I have alot of love for the people of African and people of african decent because just as i said the people of africa and the people of arabia are brothers. I mean he used a great example by stating that persian calling an arab a filthy dog and a white person calling an african a nigger. I have never in my life heard an arab racially insult a black person whether christian or muslim because arabs over all are an incredibly diverse people. There are white arabs, black arabs, dark arabs, brown arabs, blue eyed arabs, and even red headed arabs. Unlike Laintos, arabs are even more diverse when compared to their own sub groups. Culturally, I am an arab american because i speak arabic i eat arabic food, and i live in america and i live as an american, but over all of that, I am a muslim and a servant of God and my God commands me and the rest of my people to be respectful and to love my neighbor, and since i am north african my neighbors include the middle easterns, the arabs of saudi and yemen(arabia) and the rest of africa. I am proud of all of my roots and i just hope that one day all my arab and african brothers can see past what the eurapians are trying to do by continuing to divide the people of Allah and turning them against each other.

Peace out to all my niggas and sand niggas and Salamo Alikom
fouad on August 23rd, 2007 7:12 am

also regarding Egypt and north africa, being north african myself i can assure you the the people of north africa were never “black” black. They were dark yes, darker then the white man ofcourse, but they were not as black as the rest of the africans. The berbers existed in north africa for thousands of years some say even more then 10,000 years ago. Those people were african, as african as a persom from senegal or the congo, but I think that the ancient egyptians for example were not black, nor arab, but more of a mix of the both. If you look at carving in walls in Egypt, you would see that they had dark skin but not black, althought there are some drawings of blacker indiviuals ,that is because Egypt was a mixed society of black egyptians, dark egyptians and lighter skinned egyptians. North Africa has always been a diverse portion of the world. I believe that the middle east was a bit mroe diverse due to its placement in which it connents 3 differant continents, Asia, Europe, and Africa. That is why arabs are the most diverse people in the world geneticly and ethnicly, but as i said north africa would be the 2nd most diverse because you have had mating between black africans, lighter africans, arabs, and even some europians for cenutires if not thousands of years. I kind of pisses me off that europians believe that ancient egyptians were somehow white, and black africans claim that the ancient egyptians were black, very similar to how whites believe jesus had blue eyes and blonde hair and was white, and africans believe he was a black man. Just as jesus was neither, the egyptias were/are neither. You truely believe that all of the “black” ancient egyptians were wiped off or pushed off their lands and the arabs took over? probably not especially when you look at what happens to a region of the world when the old muslim empire would take over. Spain for example had its golden age in science, phiosophy, mathematics, etc. Many converted to islam in europe, not because barbaric arabs from the desert put swords to their throats, but because the arabs who are also muslims have been taught by their faith to live in peace and harmony with their fellow man and teach them while learning from them. The same happened to Africa when islam spread from arabia. Many flocked and became muslims. back to the point, to make it simple

Original Pure Arabs- the arabs of yaman, saudi arabia, oman, etc

Arabized middle easterns-people of the medeteranian region such as palestine, syria, jordan,etc

Arabized Africans-the people of north africa and some parts of middle africa.

Arabized euopians- whether they like it or not, theyr features have changed due to their arabization, spain, portugal, italy, turkey, and even parts of france

the muslim/arab empire was the fastest growing empire in history. I am in awe by the statement which that person made calling arabs backward. I am not a full arab and never have been infact i have faced racism from arabs when i lived in the middle east due to my lighter skin and my negro hair, that is a part of life, if u r differant then the majority u will eat shit, and since i am of mixed decent that come from all sides i have done my research and i am very certain that africans and arabs are brothers, and so is anything in between which include the berbers, the egyptians, the north africans and so on. Speaking arabic does not make u an arab, but if share arabic culture, if you have arab ancestory then u are arabic, whether ur skin is as white as snow or as black as the night. Arabs are almost at another dimension when it comes to race. Unlike most of the empires that ruled the world, the people of arabia were so humble with their “supposed enslaved” nations that many arabs and the people of the region they controlled would marry and produce offspring. Hence why there are so many parts of the world that have been arabized, which brings me ot my next point, arabs did not force their language nor their culture on anyone. The people who accepted the arabic language were mostly muslims and that is because islam’s holy book was brought down in arabic and God demanded that man learns this language for its beauty and power. Unlike the missionaries who come to africa to this day holding a bible, forcing africans to “become” christians in order to give them food, islam’s message is simple, sumbit to God or move along…There is nothing backward about the beauty and grace of the arabic language nor its original people.hell for example, 10 percent of the slaves that were taken from africa to north and south america where muslims who spoke arabic, so while some of you may believe the filth that the white man tries to portray about arabs and muslims’ influence on africa, just remember that no arabs or north africans enslaved, raped, bred and abused people for over 600 years. There is no black and white in the eyes of God, only faithful and faithless. I suggest to all of you that you get over this race crap because this is what makes life very hard for people like me and you, get your education, if your a muslim that is all you need to worry about being rather then trying to accept one side of your ethnicities and disregard the rest that u dont seem to like because in this day and age the media plays it down. Worship God and make this world a better place, that is what you need to do.

Salam
Kush Liberation Front: Nubia, the Upper North Has Risen Up in Arms : The Sudanese Thinker on September 3rd, 2007 2:39 pm

[…] If you’re confused about this whole Arab/African, Arab/Nubian categorization, read this. Nubians are Africans. Ethnically speaking, the government in Khartoum is dominated by Afro-Arabs, […]
Zep Tepi on October 27th, 2007 8:04 pm

I am a Black American who has American Indian and English blood. I know I am still BLACK. Black bllod always dominates, don’t fool yourself!
Damage on December 1st, 2007 9:02 am

Fascinating read.
But for me, it begs the question:
If we take the factual history of the slave trade (as opposed to the one-sided version currently doing the rounds, blaming millions of innocent modern whites, based on having the same skin colour as the protagonists): The north africans (or black people as seen back then) who came across the sea to rape and pillage 1.5 million white people, then kidnap them as (mostly sex) slaves - only for the ‘favour’ to be learned, and returned, a couple of hundred years later by whites on africans (the ’slave trade’ we all refer to now) - Could we consider those original slave traders to be african (therefore the revenge was accurate) or arab (inaccurate, but this was a time of ‘black and white’ so generalisation was understandable, perhaps even forgiveable)?
Maybe I didn’t explain that well, but when the white slave traders avenged the previous raids from ‘the black people across the sea’, if they were african not arab, then perhaps the slave trade (the half-baked version told to us today) was more justified than first thought. If it were arab raiders, then the whites who went deeper into africa, with hindsight, didn’t return the favour’ to the right people.
‘Apologies’ to anyone who doesn’t know the real history of the slave trade, it’s a pity we only have the black militant version available in the mainstream: the book ‘white gold’ would be a good starting point.
One amusing anecdote concerns the arabs who kidnapped white slaves well before these events: the whites were constantly described as ‘lazy’.
The Sudanese System & Way of Life - Part 2: Family, Marriage and the Obligatory Hospitality : The Sudanese Thinker on December 29th, 2007 11:43 am

[…] true. Especially since he had this feast in Khartoum which is in the Arab/Afro-Arab dominated Northern part of the […]
fouad on January 10th, 2008 4:58 pm

i am sorry to say..but the whites could have not returned the favored to the arabs if they tried and as a matter of fact they did. In the time of the muslim and arab empire, the arabs did infact force some into slavery. Most of the time people who were forced into this slavery were either soldiers or people who had traveled with these soldiers. Also the arabs treated their slaves as workers and these slaves were all skin colors including arabs themselves. If you lost to an arab general you would in turn owe your life to him and can work to pay it of. Furthermore, when the moors who are afro arabs did invade white europe, they did positive things. They brought the white man out of the dark ages and gave them scientific and philosophical advances. They taught them the number zero and gave them banking tacttics. Even the jews had their golden age under moorish rule/ So in a sense, the moors/muslims/arabs who conquered europe did them a favor by making them humans again and treating them as equals. The whites on the other hand enslaved africans and treated them like animals, breeding them, selling them, beating them and so on and so forth. Infact over 10 percent of the slaves brought from africa were muslim. Therefor, we owe you..not you owe us. We helped your people, we shared with them all that we formulated in mathematics, philosophy, theology, medicine, arts, engineerings and so on and so forth….educated yourself better and try not to read your people’s side of the story…because since the innocent days of your elementary school you have been taught lies.
Asma Ana on January 28th, 2008 3:30 am

Dear all,

Please read “War of Visions: Conflict of Identities in the Sudan” by Francis Mading Deng, a distinguished Sudanese scholar to get some perspective on this identity crisis in the Sudan.
ibrahim salah on February 7th, 2008 12:25 am

I don’t think it’s ideal to make an issue or deal out of it. we are as we are and should be proud of this. this type of disscussion is not benefit any one.
Chimande on February 19th, 2008 10:09 pm

As you said before, indiginous African were Arabilized and Islamized at the same time by Arab. They’ve adopted Arabs culture and tradition. Therefore, it’s their choice to call themselves Arabs or Africans. But I think it would be a great shame for those who had lost their cultural identity, when they’re ask whether they Arabs or Africans. It’d be better for them to said we Africans because they were the native of the land before assimilation took place, as the knew. For real arabs, it’s find to call themslves arabs.

}: Sudan at large is in Africa. Why don’t we called ourselves Africans?
In my conclusion, let’s take arab as one of the enthic group in Sudan, like Dinka, Nuer, Nuba, Acholi and many others. So take this: Arabs are Arabs, Dinka Are Dinka, and Nuer are Nuer. But if we come together as Sudanese, We ARE AFRICANS!!!!
Believe it or not!

Thanks by the way.
Cocoa Chic on March 12th, 2008 6:37 pm

Oh my Gosh!! This dialogue has been going on for over a year. Everyone is mixed and everything all depends on complexion and hair texture. This is how people classify who and what you are. This is to mentally place themselves in a position of superiority based upon what society has taught us. Everyone does it. Europe has globally imposed their views on what they deem good. Africa is the Motherland and all other countries and continents are her children. Everyone is African is my opinion regardless of skin color.
Salam Taki on March 13th, 2008 2:56 pm

Hi Sudanese Thinker!

Let me re quote so that I may understand:

“Since Sudan belongs to both the African Union and Arab League, I wonder if Sudanese women see Sudan as an African or Arab country.”

Ok! Lets go:

Sudan is a country in a continent called Africa. Period. The people who call this continent called Africa, their home are called Africans.
I think Sudanese women should know that Sudan is in Africa, and therefore is African.

Arab Country! A country for Arabs! Ah! An Arab is a person from the geographical area called Arabian Pennisula! Sudan is not in the Arabian Pennisula.
Sudanese women had better known this.

African and Arabs are merely expressions of a geographical location. African can be a people, a culture, a thing name it and similarly should Arab or Arabian.

Several times, the connotation “African” has been used as a euphemism to refer to people who are black but in reality with a beautiful darker skin complexity! African is belonging to a continent called Africa.

I came across you site recently and I should be visiting with a regularity! I am a New Sudanese. Your blog’s name is my exercise.

Your peace, Salam Taki
elsaid on March 26th, 2008 3:05 pm

Why ?
Nasser on July 7th, 2008 9:08 am

why do I have to classify myself within these narrow confines of Arab or African? What good is it to me? Do I claim superiority or feel inferior depending on my classification? this discussion raises a volatile race issue and is only about the non-integration of our peoples and tribes to present a unfied country. If you feel superior,its your right to feel so but without insulting or degrading others. We all have a right to live, work and lead in Sudan ie Silva Kiir is accepted as First VP and Ali Osman as VP all over Sudan. We can be cohesive and strong if we stop this classification business and get down to real nation-building. claiming we have an identity crisis is lunacy. If you perceive yourself as Ethnically and culturally Arab so be it or vice versa !!
ochanji on July 7th, 2008 4:07 pm

arab -african.its called duality.conflict of interests
Ted on July 19th, 2008 2:35 am

The reason why there is so much confusion about Africa is mostly due to the Europeans trying to take credit for its history by teaching American kids that whites built the pyramids and then the Arabs came in and now they are lying and instigating themselves into taking credit for Africa’s ancient civilizations. The Europeans and Arabs have mastered the art of lying about their historic ties to Africa and even go so far as to make the Ancient Egypt -white or Arab. This is why so many people are confused about Africa. Africa is home to black Africans (the entire place)-every non-black group came to Africa in recent days. That includes whites in South Africa, Arabs in norh Africa and now the Chinease in East Africa.
Clara on September 2nd, 2008 6:05 pm

Salam Taki you were brilliant in your explanation!
Maur Abdallah Bwanamaka on September 5th, 2008 9:23 am

Asalaam Aleikum to you all
Dear Drima,am not Sudaness but Kenyan from coast province where we share simmiler phenomenon,however going by what i have read from a number of blogers,there is alot of hate and confusion amongst the people of Africa in regard to race and tribe matters,I am Muslim but not Arab, though i express myself in Arabic and am marriade to two wives one pure Arab and the second Afro-Arab while i am pure African does not make me an Arab neither my children but we shall remain to be Muslim.
When we trace the word Africa,it started with the Greek rule of what is today North Africa but formaly Carthage under the discription of Afric meaning a hot province encompasing the sections of Libya,Tunisia upper Egypt through alexandria.
When Vasco da Gama decided to take a voyage to India guided by the maps of Ibn Khaldun which had this discripion of the northern parts of the continent,He dresed the whole continent with the name hence today Africa which does not have relations with ethnic,colour or religion of its inhabitants.
The prophet Muhammad(saw) refered to this continent as known then ABYSINIA the mordern day Ethopia,Before him was profet Moses(saw) whos escapades in Egypt had encounters with guest from Abisinia(watch ten commandments)infect this should have been the true identity of the continet becouse the names comes from the heartland of the continent not as imported as the word, Africa.
The British with there evile tactics of devide and rule added the colore tone in definition of the word African by giving a black meaning,The Africans unaware of this evil took pridge in this definition and has continued to hount them since then to to date,Being Arab does not make you special and this was emphasised by the profet in his last surmon neither being black of the blakest does not make you special aither,there are poeple of fair colour who are very ugly just as there are people of dale coloure who are ugly too,not all European women are beautyfull nether not all Chiness are ugly but the stereotypes injected in your mind deterimine your perspective,so if you are cheap in thinking you get confused with this identity but all in all,Africa is not about colour or ethnicity but continent infact the continent had extended all the way to the Pursian Gulf across Syria Sham which is todays Lebanon but the dreging of Suiz Canal we lost what is commonly reffered to as the Middle East to the Aian continent which has Caucasian Russians as part of it but omits Caucasian Australians and New Zelanders as Oceniacs becouse the Anglo saxons ruled the world as pax Britanica and had to separete themselfs from others in order to impose their evil with ease,otherwise the majority of Arabs are in Africa than in Asia and mojority of Arabs look more like Africans tha Asians,they are not Mongloids becouse they are a subspecis of African tribe.
Traiditional trends have also affected our perspective very much,this include machantile activities and agriculturerall,this goes across race or tribe,where as agriculturallist tend to be conservative,slow,patient and reclousive,machantiles tend to be liberal,flamboyant,agresive,impatiant though some inclusive and others reclousive,then if you can translate this to general over view of our identity crisis,then you can understand why all the tention in the socio-political and economic status of Sudan and generally the of the African diversity which is African FIRST then something else afterwards,i love all of you and Drima the post is wonderfull,keep it up somewhere we shall soon learn and help the generations after us to live a less confused life, SHUKRAN.