Interesting. What’s the background on this? Who are these guys and what sort of info did they have that the government needed? Were they actually tortured for information or some other purpose - as a scare tactic, as the voiceover at the beginning seems to implicate? Four months… if this was for info extraction, it is an obvious failure.
And why’s the main speaker using so many English words?
I was asking myself the same questions too. I tried to research for some background of this documentary and the people in it. Found nothing but it’s still interesting.
maybe nice to know that the israeli knesseth is considering legal status to the sudanese refugees (sarcasm mode on here) - to 12 families outta the 280 people….
it’s a joke
sorry
it’s cool-blooded politics again that keeps from the human spirit to act
~~~~~Some of the Sudanese refugees appeared at Monday’s Knesset committee meeting, and one directly addressed MK Sara Marom Shalev (Pensioners’), a Holocaust survivor. “I turn to you as someone who fled genocide,” he said. “My relatives were killed before my eyes and you want to deport us to Sudan?” ~~~~~
The English part is easily explained, I believe. If you’ll notice both speakers use English words, though the main speaker uses a great deal more of them. I think both knew that the documentary was aimed at an English-speaking crowd, and they did their best to come across in a comprehensible manner while being in a very unstable mental state (retelling such memories often means reliving them in one’s mind, at least in part).
So they alternated between languages, between trying to speak in English and in their native language, probably without even realizing that they were doing so. And I reckon the folks who filmed this weren’t too inclined to ask them to retell it using a single language, as there’s only so much you can ask of someone who went through Hell and was willing to tell the tale…
Thanks for posting this, Drima. Though I daresay it ruined my mood for the rest of the day, it was still worth watching.
In my dad’s generation and the generation of that guy who was speaking, English was commonly used since the education was in English. The British were still around back then.
And Tse, if those Sudanese get deported, they’ll end up getting killed almost certainly
The Sudanese ‘fugees in Israel ain’t gonna be deported to Sudan, and that’s obvious. If that’d happen, this stinky government is going to have massive demonstrations against it - most of the ‘papers at least report about the Sudanese ‘fugees, and this would be a major scandal.
as for the Sudanese refugees… Raccoon, I wouldn’t be all that sure. Remember, the current government doesn’t seem to care all that much for public opinion, and peoples’ lives… pheh. And while I *can* trust some of the people in the government to care enough about peoples’ lives, I fear most are cheap opportunists out for a quick buck, a comfy leather seat and a BMW. And most of said opportunists who aren’t members of Kadima can always build on any public backlash to go against Kadima and not them.
So… and this doesn’t have me all that joyful… The lives of several hundred people currently lie in the hands of cheapshop political assholes of the Kadima party who need to find the brains to realize that sending said people to their deaths is going to make their political future plunge even further…
We can but hope that their self-preservation instincts are developed enough.
He’s talking about an organisation which documents torture and other human rights violations. Wouldnt that be SOAT? (Sudan Organisation Against Torture). In the titles afterwards, however, it mentions GATS (Group Against Torture Sudan). Never heard of them before.
Here is more info on them: http://www.afsc.org/midatlantic/projectvoice/gats.htm
and weblog: http://ghosthouses.blogspot.com/
Anyway, these methods sound very familiar to reports I read and heard of before (concernign ghost houses in Sudan). Therefore, I believe this documentary to be reliable.
I noticed btw one of the guys talking arabic but saying the words “immediately” and “unfortunately” in English. These words don’t exist in Arabic?
I know Suzanne thanks for that but I just wish they gave some background to the story… like what information did they want? Why were those specific people arrested and tortured? etc.
It is not necessarily the same thing
You can also say that you’d like to have that added to the documentary when you believe it is an important item to tell to others who dont know.
Anyway, it can be because of various things. Of what I mainly heard it is usually not really clear to the victim what they are looking for (they seem to like to ask about others instead of things you did yourself instead), but they just got you there because you are suspected of something or linked to other suspects. Being critical towards the Sudan government in acts or words, is not really appreciated
Thing is, this whole story doesn’t sound like info extraction at all. Sudan probably has enough KGB interrogation specialists to do it properly rather than beat people up and rape them with assorted objects.
If I was a heartless dictator and used such tactics - especially releasing people afterwards - it would have been to terrorize potential opposition. But then again, stuff like this is better done publicly, as Machiavelli suggested. This really makes little sense - either Sudan doesn’t have any sort of info extraction experts, or this was initiated by a sadistic underling for no particular purpose, or this is a sign of socio-political stupidity.
Raccoon, why would it be better if it would be done in public? People shrug their shoulders when facing horror every day. It’s better to do it somewhere silent; just spreading the (correct) rumors that those ghost houses exist. Much more frightening.
Suzanne - because this is not a very effective scare tactic. Gulags, public executions and all that would be more effective. It worked for the Russians… but then again, they also had the infamous KGB dungeons.
If it would have worked for the Russians only a few killings would have been enough. It didn’t work. Nor does the Sudanese way. The best way to avoid troubles in a country is to be an open country, I believe
Suzanne - when I say “worked”, I mean “cowed the populace enough to stop all resistence”. It’s what you want if you’re an evil tyrant. Democracy and liberalism are good for the populace, not for the tyrant
Thanks to human rights defenders, The Raccoon, Drima, Tsedek, Suzanne, Hipster, and Roman Kalik for your comments on this video. I’m saying this and in my mind the shameful level of some comments that posted on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8eDuH1SCQ0
Im grateful in particular to Suzanne for making the effort and reseraching the validity of this documentary.
I’m one of those two survivors interviewed in this video.
A major rationale behind the ‘islamist’ torture system is to crush the body and soul of detainees, but not killing them, then send them back to their community as an example for any one who would dare walking their path.
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Name: Drima Abu Hamdan.
Location: Deep, Deep Down the Orgasmic Rabbit Hole of Epistemology.
Bio of Awesomeness: Traditionalist Muslim, Turned Free Thinking Sufi Lover. Social Media Consultant to NY Times Best-Selling Authors. Author of Upcoming Memoir. Belief Systems Junkie. Afro-Arab Libertarian Music Freak. Vehemently Anti-Islamist. Loud and Drop Dead Gorgeous. The High Priest of Mischievous "Blasphemy." Read on and Have Your Brain Spun. You've Been Warned!
"If I don't have the freedom to disbelieve, I cannot believe."
— Abdullahi An-Na'im
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a god; because, if there be one, he must approve the homage of reason rather than of blind-folded fear."
SudaneseThinker
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Interesting. What’s the background on this? Who are these guys and what sort of info did they have that the government needed? Were they actually tortured for information or some other purpose - as a scare tactic, as the voiceover at the beginning seems to implicate? Four months… if this was for info extraction, it is an obvious failure.
And why’s the main speaker using so many English words?
Hope it’s not too many questions.
I was asking myself the same questions too. I tried to research for some background of this documentary and the people in it. Found nothing but it’s still interesting.
maybe nice to know that the israeli knesseth is considering legal status to the sudanese refugees (sarcasm mode on here) - to 12 families outta the 280 people….
it’s a joke
sorry
it’s cool-blooded politics again that keeps from the human spirit to act
~~~~~Some of the Sudanese refugees appeared at Monday’s Knesset committee meeting, and one directly addressed MK Sara Marom Shalev (Pensioners’), a Holocaust survivor. “I turn to you as someone who fled genocide,” he said. “My relatives were killed before my eyes and you want to deport us to Sudan?” ~~~~~
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/805530.html
GRRRRRR
The English part is easily explained, I believe. If you’ll notice both speakers use English words, though the main speaker uses a great deal more of them. I think both knew that the documentary was aimed at an English-speaking crowd, and they did their best to come across in a comprehensible manner while being in a very unstable mental state (retelling such memories often means reliving them in one’s mind, at least in part).
So they alternated between languages, between trying to speak in English and in their native language, probably without even realizing that they were doing so. And I reckon the folks who filmed this weren’t too inclined to ask them to retell it using a single language, as there’s only so much you can ask of someone who went through Hell and was willing to tell the tale…
Thanks for posting this, Drima. Though I daresay it ruined my mood for the rest of the day, it was still worth watching.
Many Sudanese ppl(esp the older ones) have the tendency to alternate b/w English & Arabic.It was unintentional.
In my dad’s generation and the generation of that guy who was speaking, English was commonly used since the education was in English. The British were still around back then.
And Tse, if those Sudanese get deported, they’ll end up getting killed almost certainly
The Sudanese ‘fugees in Israel ain’t gonna be deported to Sudan, and that’s obvious. If that’d happen, this stinky government is going to have massive demonstrations against it - most of the ‘papers at least report about the Sudanese ‘fugees, and this would be a major scandal.
So there’s nothing to worry about, I think.
Thank you for the English/Arabic explanation.
Ah, my bad about the language thing.
as for the Sudanese refugees… Raccoon, I wouldn’t be all that sure. Remember, the current government doesn’t seem to care all that much for public opinion, and peoples’ lives… pheh. And while I *can* trust some of the people in the government to care enough about peoples’ lives, I fear most are cheap opportunists out for a quick buck, a comfy leather seat and a BMW. And most of said opportunists who aren’t members of Kadima can always build on any public backlash to go against Kadima and not them.
So… and this doesn’t have me all that joyful… The lives of several hundred people currently lie in the hands of cheapshop political assholes of the Kadima party who need to find the brains to realize that sending said people to their deaths is going to make their political future plunge even further…
We can but hope that their self-preservation instincts are developed enough.
He’s talking about an organisation which documents torture and other human rights violations. Wouldnt that be SOAT? (Sudan Organisation Against Torture). In the titles afterwards, however, it mentions GATS (Group Against Torture Sudan). Never heard of them before.
Here is more info on them:
http://www.afsc.org/midatlantic/projectvoice/gats.htm
and weblog:
http://ghosthouses.blogspot.com/
Anyway, these methods sound very familiar to reports I read and heard of before (concernign ghost houses in Sudan). Therefore, I believe this documentary to be reliable.
I noticed btw one of the guys talking arabic but saying the words “immediately” and “unfortunately” in English. These words don’t exist in Arabic?
Ah on the ghost houses blogspot it explains who made this film:
“produced by Survivors of Citibank Ghost House in collaboration with Refugee Club Studio
* First Screening: Dec. 10th 2006: The Darfur Advocacy Week in Washington, DC
Speakers: Adeeb Yousif; Adlan Abdelaziz”
I know Suzanne thanks for that but I just wish they gave some background to the story… like what information did they want? Why were those specific people arrested and tortured? etc.
You really want to know (because you dont) or you just would have wanted it to be mentioned in the documentary?
Heh. Isn’t that the same thing? I wanted it to be mentioned in the documentary coz I don’t know and I’m really curious to know.
It is not necessarily the same thing
You can also say that you’d like to have that added to the documentary when you believe it is an important item to tell to others who dont know.
Anyway, it can be because of various things. Of what I mainly heard it is usually not really clear to the victim what they are looking for (they seem to like to ask about others instead of things you did yourself instead), but they just got you there because you are suspected of something or linked to other suspects. Being critical towards the Sudan government in acts or words, is not really appreciated
Thing is, this whole story doesn’t sound like info extraction at all. Sudan probably has enough KGB interrogation specialists to do it properly rather than beat people up and rape them with assorted objects.
If I was a heartless dictator and used such tactics - especially releasing people afterwards - it would have been to terrorize potential opposition. But then again, stuff like this is better done publicly, as Machiavelli suggested. This really makes little sense - either Sudan doesn’t have any sort of info extraction experts, or this was initiated by a sadistic underling for no particular purpose, or this is a sign of socio-political stupidity.
Raccoon, why would it be better if it would be done in public? People shrug their shoulders when facing horror every day. It’s better to do it somewhere silent; just spreading the (correct) rumors that those ghost houses exist. Much more frightening.
Suzanne - because this is not a very effective scare tactic. Gulags, public executions and all that would be more effective. It worked for the Russians… but then again, they also had the infamous KGB dungeons.
If it would have worked for the Russians only a few killings would have been enough. It didn’t work. Nor does the Sudanese way. The best way to avoid troubles in a country is to be an open country, I believe
Suzanne - when I say “worked”, I mean “cowed the populace enough to stop all resistence”. It’s what you want if you’re an evil tyrant. Democracy and liberalism are good for the populace, not for the tyrant
Thanks to human rights defenders, The Raccoon, Drima, Tsedek, Suzanne, Hipster, and Roman Kalik for your comments on this video. I’m saying this and in my mind the shameful level of some comments that posted on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M8eDuH1SCQ0
Im grateful in particular to Suzanne for making the effort and reseraching the validity of this documentary.
I’m one of those two survivors interviewed in this video.
A major rationale behind the ‘islamist’ torture system is to crush the body and soul of detainees, but not killing them, then send them back to their community as an example for any one who would dare walking their path.
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