I Like “Clitoris”

Posted on August 26, 2006
Filed Under General Thoughts |

I like “clitoris” and I shall assume that all men like “clitoris” too (well okay, not all men). The question that I want to ask to women though is, do you like your clitoris?!

In Sudan and the Muslim world, there are still barbaric practices taking place. New born girls are still subjected to mutilation of their precious reproductive organs. Their clitorises are either cut off or burnt with a red hot metal object. In extreme cases the vagina even gets sewn leaving only a very small hole so that when the girl grows up, she experiences great pain during sex.

All of this savage cruelty is done to girls just so that their temptations get reduced. That way no girl will feel the need to engage in sin. Hence, she wouldn’t bring any dishonor or shame to her family.

I’m telling you people, if there’s anyone who takes this whole “honor” thing to a whole new and extreme level, then it’s probably us Muslims.

I know of girls who go to such extreme measures just to satisfy themselves without risking pregnancy or breaking of the hymen (which most sew back by the way). What do most of those paranoid girls do? They take “it” up the anus. Sorry for the mental image but I just had to discuss this.

This nasty tribalism and extremism must stop. Forced morality is not true morality. It’s simply nothing but oppression in my opinion.

UPDATE: Anal sex is a pretty big deal to many people but not to others it seems. Interesting! In Islam anal sex is forbidden just like tattoos are. I never understood why to tell you the truth. I just think taking “it” up the anus does seem a little inappropriate. Don’t you think so? I mean come on, that’s where your stinky poop comes out from. On the other hand though, your stinky urine does come out from the front. This has got me thinking.

The anus: Is it a one way or 2 ways highway?

Comments

62 Responses to “I Like “Clitoris””

  1. Anonymous on August 26th, 2006 8:09 pm

    pussy pussy popen
    aaaaah fuk nigga

  2. hipster on August 27th, 2006 12:15 am

    Chk out this relevant discussion on Shamarat

    http://www.shamarat.net/db/viewtopic.php?t=9289809

    Chk out this sad yet beautiful story on Shamarat as well

    http://www.shamarat.net/db/viewtopic.php?t=9291132

    One of our university’s objectives is raising awareness about Female Genital Mutilation(FGM) in Sudan.All students are dispatched in their fourth year to rural areas to help bring its brutality to light.During my field trip, we were able to convince a handful but the problem is deeply rooted which make its complete eradication difficult.Many single women complained that potential husbands would turn them down if they were uncircumsized.Hence, it is also the men’s perceptions that have to be altered.
    FGM is one of the most despicable & horrific phenomena preponderent in our society.

  3. Mysterious on August 27th, 2006 12:41 am

    The problem lies within those extremists. They don’t realize that the aftermath of such actions might turn the tables against their intentions.

    Narrow-minded!

  4. Nominally Challenged on August 27th, 2006 4:06 am

    Hey Drima,

    Wow, this is a troubling post. I had no idea that this barbaric custom was still being practised.

    What’s more, your post has really made me think about what a different world this would be if people were simply allowed to enjoy sex, rather than having to experience guilt because of it, or actual physical pain (as you describe here).

    I am trying to think of how a woman, who has never experienced pleasure during sex, can be expected to bring up emotionally healthy children. It seems to me to be impossible, and your post has got me wondering just what proportion of the world’s population (from all creeds) would be better off, if their mothers and fathers had actually enjoyed copulating.

    By the way, the sexual repression of women might be truly physically nasty as you describe, but even when it is not as physical as that, and is ‘merely’ emotional, it is problematic. Yes, genital mutilation has to stop. But there also has to be an entire overhaul of the whole concept of morality.

    Why is it moral to sexually oppress a woman? Why is it ‘honorable’ to do so? What does it serve, and, more tellingly perhaps, what are the proponents of it truly frightened of? That women might be able to enjoy themselves without the assistance of men?

  5. The Raccoon on August 27th, 2006 4:52 am

    NC - personally, I think you’re more than right. Orgasm is a very calming experience - I truly believe that if as many women had orgasms as men, that elusive world peace would be that much closer.

    On the other hand, there’s nothing wrong with anal sex. Other than the reason Drima stated (taking it up the arse to preserve virginity? WTF?).

    All hail Eris!

  6. Anonymous on August 27th, 2006 8:56 am

    Sorry for the mental image? Sorry? sorry?!

    Man, you don’t know what you are missing!

    Sorry, but I can’t sign with my real blogger name.

  7. Anonymous on August 27th, 2006 9:42 am

    OMG, are you stupid, it’s not just in the “Muslim” world, it’s practiced throughtout Africa by animists, Christians, and Muslims alike. Get your facts straight. So CLEARLY it’s a cultural and tribal practice, but if all Muslims were practicing they would KNOW that this was not allowed. Circumsicion is for health reasons, since a girl does not have outer skin and we are not prone to infection there is no need for it, and to rob one of a God given gift of sexuality is haram. If only everyone was knowledgeable maybe we wouldn’t be having these ridiculous social issues on the continent.

  8. Nominally Challenged on August 27th, 2006 10:16 am

    Racoon, thanks for the heads up :)
    No, can’t fault anal sex either, but what’s it got to do with Eris? - Just wondering …

  9. The Raccoon on August 27th, 2006 11:05 am

    NC - everything’s got to do with Eris. And I know for sure She also takes it up the arse, when and if She feels like it (Ares was bragging about it just the other week) ;)

  10. The Raccoon on August 27th, 2006 11:10 am

    BTW, Drima, I notice that the “Coexist” banner doesn’t have the Golden Apple of Discord innit. What kind of a racist, evil discriminating person are you?!?!!11?

    Now I have to burn a random embassy and probably a couple of flags, too… awwww, man, why did you have to make me do this? ;)
    Hmmmm. Maybe I can burn some dry wood and coals instead… and slightly burn some meat… and maybe some dried cannabis flowers, too… yeah… sounds like a good idea… hail Eris! :)
    *snigger*

  11. Anonymous on August 27th, 2006 12:57 pm

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n2OIywkOF0Q&mode=related&search=
    I absolutely love this, it explains that Islam and the American constitution are in perfect harmony, and this is coming from a Texan. LoL

  12. Proud Muslim on August 27th, 2006 1:47 pm

    Signs of the Hour ( TO ALL THE UMMAH, pass it on)
    As we look at this article we realise how true the Messenger(P.B.U.H) was these signs were prophesized 1400 years ago!!!

    The number of men will decrease and the number of women will increase until there are 50 women to be looked after by one man. (In the U.S today there are 6 million woman to 1 million men.)

    The Jews will gather again to live in Bilad Canaan

    The disappearance of knowledge and the appearance of ignorance, with much killing

    Adultery will become widespread, and the drinking of wine will become common

    Islam will become worn out like clothes are, until no one will know what fasting, prayer, charity and rituals are

    People will begin to believe in the stars and reject AL QADAR (THE DIVINE DECREE OF DESTINY) (this is a creepy sign because its here already, no one believes in predestination, instead they say “it was written in the stars”)

    Earthquakes will increase;

    Time will pass quickly; (Weren’t you 16 just a while ago)

    Afflictions will appear;

    Killing will increase;

    Wealth will increase;

    Women will be wearing clothes but not wearing clothes (bikinis and so on…)

    Men will pass by people’s graves and say: “Would that I were in his place”; (large amount of sucidal deaths?)

    Allah will send a disease to fornicators that will have no cure (Aids?)
    THE PROPHET (saw) SAID: “IF MY UMMAH BEARS 15 TRAITS(QUALITIES),TRIBULATION WILL FOLLOW IT.” (DAY OF JUDGEMENT) SOMEONE ASKED,”WHAT ARE THEY O MESSENGER OF ALLAH?” HE (saw) SAID:

    * When any gain is shared out only among the rich, with no benefit to the poor;

    * When a trust becomes a means of making profit;

    * When paying ZAKKAT becomes a burden;

    * When voices are raised in the mosque;

    * When the leader of a people is the worst of them; When people treat a man with respect because what he may do;

    * When much wine is drunk; red wind or the earth swallow them, or to be transformed into animals.”

  13. halalhippie on August 27th, 2006 1:58 pm

    3rd anonymous: it’s practiced throughtout Africa by animists, Christians, and Muslims alike” OK, so I’m not bashing Muslims here, right ? I strive to understand and tolerate even the most disgisting traits that we humans have, but this ?? FGM …. When I think that it’s adult women doing this to litte girls “for their own good” !!! Damn, I feel like hitting such a woman in the face. And I utterly despise guys who hit women.

    Grrr!! gotta take my medication.

    Drima, why’d you have to remind me ??

    oh and last anonymous: very prophetic, what’s it got to do with Drima’s post ?

  14. The Professor on August 27th, 2006 2:05 pm

    I agree entirely with your points, Drima. I’ve met a lot of liberated muslims in the flesh but none a blogge,r so I must give you your kudos.

    Why deny women the pleasure while men are allowed to indulge to the fullest? Sex, although it is primarily for procreation definitely was also made to be enjoyed or few people would ever think of procreating.

    Once again, kudos.

  15. Anonymous on August 27th, 2006 2:35 pm

    Hey Drima, as you are the expert about the Sudan crisis is this quote in anyway true

    “The US sought to reach southern Sudan, recruited an army of southerners, supported them with weapons and funding and directed them to seek separation from Sudan. Then it exercised pressure against Khartoum government to sign an unjust agreement which permits south Sudan to gain independence from the north within six years.

    [Sudanese President Omar] al-Bashir and [US President George] Bush should have been aware that this agreement is not worth the ink by which it was written, and we do not accord the least concern to it. Nobody, whoever he was, has the right to accede an inch of the land of Islam and the south will remain an inseparable part of the land of Islam, God willing, even if the war continued for decades.

    The US was not satisfied by all the sedition and crimes, but went on to incite sedition, the largest of which was the west Sudan sedition by exploiting some disputes between the tribes and sparking a savage war between them that will spare nothing, prior to sending in Crusader troops to occupy the region and steal its oil wealth under the pretext of peacekeeping.”

    Halalhippie, like I said this is not a practice of Islam, it is within the cultural and tribal areas of the continent, also let’s not forget that people in India are famous for aborted their unborn females, before the time of Islam, female children were buried alive during the pagan rule of Arabia, AND the ignorant display of the caste system in India, what are the untouchables but people who were born disabled (By the way you guys should all watch Lagaan: Once upon a time in India, SUCH A BEAUTIFUL MOVIE) So it’s this ridiculous tribalism that needs to be eliminated, look at the violence that has been sparked in East Africa, and for no other reason but tribalism, one tribe against another, even if they are of the same lineage and blood. Ridiculous.

  16. Nominally Challenged on August 27th, 2006 4:34 pm

    Hey Prof!

    “Sex, although it is primarily for procreation definitely was also made to be enjoyed or few people would ever think of procreating.”

    More like the exact opposite, IMHO.

    In my view, sex is primarily for enjoyment. In certain conditions, sex will result in procreation - but certainly not always (which is just as well, really). It cannot possibly be the other way around, except in the context of a religion that seeks to limit enjoyment under the guise of ‘morality’ (read: ‘control’). Many religions (if not all) do this, so don’t think I’m criticizing any specific faith. All I’m saying is, if we leave the dogma aside, logic (and physiology) dictate the opposite of what you said.

    Racoon - looking at Eris in a whole new light … ;-)

  17. Tsedek on August 27th, 2006 6:38 pm

    I still can’t get used to talk (write) so openly about sex. Being brought up in an a-religious family, we still held the unsaid code that you don’t talk about those things. And, I still can’t… BUT: FGM is a very serious matter that is, as said before here, not religion related but culture-related. Unfortunately getting rid of this horrendous practice seems to make little progress, although organizations from all over the world are involved in arousing awareness to this subject. The strongest outcry against this crime was given a few months ago, I think in Mali or somewhere, when a young girl died after having undergone such operation. Literally tens of thousands of women were taken to the streets to demonstrate against it. I think that’s the only solution anyway, no outside “help” or such, but awareness and protest from “within” in an organized manner.

    I’ve seen it being performed on tv…. I just can’t explain how terrible a thing this is. The only problem was that the girl in the tribe it was being performed on was enormously satisfied with the result afterwards…. she felt a “respectable” woman :(
    Tse.

    ps, Drima - if and when you got time could you have a look at my blog and see my last posting there, I’m very curious to know what’s your opinion on that article.

  18. Leilouta on August 27th, 2006 8:53 pm

    LOL… I wanted to write about this subject so many times but never had the courage to do so…you’re right. There are many girls who do other things just to save their ‘virginity’.

  19. Drima on August 27th, 2006 11:54 pm

    “OMG, are you stupid, it’s not just in the “Muslim” world”

    Where have ever I mentioned it’s only the Muslim world? Plus one of the things this blog is dedicated to is criticizing the many retarded things we Muslims do in name of Islam, culture or whatever… Read the link first.

    “Hey Drima, as you are the expert about the Sudan crisis is this quote in anyway true”

    Read this…

    http://sudanesethinker.blogspot.com/2006/07/agenda-behind-darfur.html

  20. BrooklynJon on August 28th, 2006 12:05 am

    Proud Muslim,
    “(In the U.S today there are 6 million woman to 1 million men.)”

    What the heck are you talking about?

    Drima,
    Kudos for bringing this up. We Jews are pretty open-minded about sex (Be fruitful and multiply is the first of our 613 commandments in the Torah). And quite a lot of us are secretly mystified by the treatment sex gets in Islam and Christinity. In my professional life, I run into this dichotomy very often. But really, we’d all be a lot better off if there were more sex (with appropriat protection) and less violence.

  21. Drima on August 28th, 2006 12:54 am

    Brooklynjon, thanks. I have something I want to raise though.

    People always equate Islam to how Muslims practice it. Many Muslims don’t practice Islam properly but they follow a mix of culture and Islam. It’s this mix that leads to many perverted things we see being done.

    In practice, Muslims generally do treat sex in a very narrow minded and paranoid way. However in Islam, Allah clearly says he gave us sex as a gift to be enjoyed. We are encouraged to have sex and fully enjoy it (not anal though as it’s considered unhealthy and unclean). Allah even gives us good deeds the more we have sex.

    Keep in mind that there are boundaries set to us by Allah. Sex within marriage is what’s expected. Also it’s the duty of men not to force their wives to do it but to approach with love, kindess and tenderness.

    There are some lunatic Muslims that say anyone who enjoys an orgasm is committing sin. Some even believe that you can only have sex if it’s to reproduce. Retarded indeed!

  22. Omar Barsawad on August 28th, 2006 1:15 am

    Female Genital Mutilation is more of a cultural practice than religious. Here in Yemen, some regions practice it and some don’t; same in Kenya - some tribes practise FGM and some don’t.

    As for sodomy, I do not think any woman would get any sexual satsfaction through that! However desperate she is!

    Drima - sodomy is forbiden in Islam just as it’s forbiden in all great religions! Nature didn’t mean us or intend us to be that way! No matter how much some ‘thinkers’ would us like to believe the ‘normality’ of homosexuality - it just doesn’t hold! Some scientists have even come up with the examples of primates, who are said we are closest to; and they say: as some primates have been noted to have homosexual tendencies - this explains why some humans do so too! In other words - this makes homosexulaity a normal behavior in Man!

    If we are to justify our deviations by comparing us to other animals, even primates - then I am very afraid for Mankind! That would mean: incest, pedophilia and many other such behaviors would also, later, be easily explained and rationalised! And given normalcy!

    No matter how one looks at it: sodomy, just as incest and pedophilia - is a deviation from the normal!

  23. Drima on August 28th, 2006 1:25 am

    Omar, I couldn’t have said it better bro!

    Sodomy just doesn’t seem right. On whether women get pleasure from it or not, I’ll let them be the judges. Any ladies willing to share their experiences? This is strictly for “learning” and discussion purposes okay. No dirty, harcore porno, boom boom talk allowed here alright?

    =)

    Awaiting some replies!

  24. Nominally Challenged on August 28th, 2006 4:28 am

    Omar, firstly it is strange that you claim, without adducing any evidence, that nature does not intend anal sex to exist, while on the other hand, you admit that there are claims that it does in fact exist in nature, but in ‘animals’ and not in humans (humans are presumably not animals in your view). The fact is that anal sex does exist in nature and that humans are animals. Therefore, your argument cannot be based in nature. It can, however, be based in religion, but whilst I have no choice about whether I let nature apply to me or not, I most definitely do have a choice not to subscribe to a religion - and here is one of the reasons why I made that choice :)

    Secondly, anything can be a deviation from the normal, for any given definition of ‘normal’. In the cultures that this post is talking about, FGM is considered ‘normal’. I doubt you’d be arguing that that is a good thing. There are no points for this line of argument I’m afraid.

    Please do not lump homosexuality (the ‘deviation’ I read into your post as being inferred by ’sodomy’) in with incest and paedophilia. Most of the victims of both incest and paedophilia are female, victims of male aggressors. If anything, then, those last two are a heterosexual problem, not a homosexual one.

    And finally, Drima, I’d have thought that you would put a little bit more of an effort into an argument than ’sodomy just doesn’t seem right’.

    What about oral sex? Does that seem right? Just another orifice, isn’t it? But we eat out of that one … perhaps there are some things that shouldn’t be put there either. Can’t see terribly many men saying no to a blow-job though (sorry, no other delicate way of putting that).

    Perhaps the rule ought to be: put it where you like, so long as the person you’re doing it with consents and wants it there (this rule can be applied to both men and women, interacting with both men and women). Anything else stops being sex and starts being control.

    Another rule could be: if I didn’t invite you into my bedroom, stay out, and I promise not to look into yours. The world would benefit from that one in a big way.

  25. Qatar Cat on August 28th, 2006 4:33 am

    With regards to FGM - it is absolutely horrific and barbaric, and unfortunately many countries in Africa and Middle East still practice it widely (Somalia, Sudan, Egypt, Ethiopia are but few examples where majority of girls are subjected to circumcision). The worst part is that the immigrants spread the practice elsewhere instead of abolishing it in their own countries. A lot of Western born and bred African and Middle Eastern girls are shipped to their home countries to undergo the procedure. I had an opportunity to work with FGM victims and every case is sadder than the other :(
    As for the “back road” - this is widely practiced in every country where virginity is highly prized. What a joke.

    Another fun fact - as soon as we write something sex related, the comments box explodes. I should know, lol. My female satisfaction post of last week was a hit! :P

  26. Qatar Cat on August 28th, 2006 4:34 am

    And I agree with everything Nominally Challenged has just posted ;-)

  27. Nominally Challenged on August 28th, 2006 5:16 am

    Thanks for the heads up, Kitty, and Happy Birthday :)

  28. e e on August 28th, 2006 5:53 am

    This seems to be an explosive subject, by the comments it drew! Bravo, Drima!

    I agree with most of the posts, but tend to differ some how somewhere. I believe FGM can be eradicated if the old grannies can be convinced to change! They are the onese standing in the way of change. The attitude of men towards circumcised women must undergo changes too. If men continue to insist on circumcised women, what could they do?

    I don’t agree with anonymous and NC up there that anal sex was meant to exists in nature. That is the adaptability of men. Every part of the human body was designed for a purpose. The vagina is wel-lubricated and furnished with mucous membranes that suits the sexual act, thus reducing (if not eliminating completely) friction. The anal canal has no such mechanism. That is why homosexuals has to resort to artificial lubricants. The anal canal is designed as an exhaust pipe for body’s waste! Humans will have to do anal sex for millions of years before evolution can change that!

  29. Nominally Challenged on August 28th, 2006 6:25 am

    e e,

    Religion accepts the existence of sodomy - otherwise it would hardly bother ruling against it, right? Anal sex might be less smooth than vaginal (though not always), but that doesn’t stop it from being an option. Heck, in oral sex, the mouth (in an ideal situation) is equipped with teeth, which can be quite damaging to the whole experience if used incorrectly, but once again, I don’t see you arguing against blow-jobs. Not to mention the quite obvious fact that some people actually like it rough.

    Personally, I think that it is quite a natural option. That you think otherwise is your prerogative. :)

    You’re right about the grannies though, and of course that men’s attitudes need to change as well - good luck to all those who are fighting this - I think that it is terribly important.

  30. Drima on August 28th, 2006 7:19 am

    Nominally Challenged,

    the reason I didn’t put any effort for a logical argument is because in a topic like this I know that my opinion won’t change much at the end. Somethings in religion just don’t make sense sometimes but after much contemplation, wala… they end up being very logical. I must admit your argument about blow jobs is very relevant to this discussion and I agree with you. The mouth was mainly equiped for chewing and not sucking “elephant trunks”. I even attended a religious Islamic debate on whether oral sex is sinfull or not. The team which was pro-oral sex won and it was concluded that Islamically oral sex is alright. I personally believe there’s nothing wrong with oral sex. I mean who the hell doesn’t like oral sex?

    Keep in mind that in Islam we’re advised to wash up before “boom boom”. In other words you can’t pee and then immediately start humping. Cleanliness and hygiene is a big part of Islam. After sex it is compulsory to do a special wash. This is why I just think anal sex isn’t right. I think it’s unclean and unhealthy. It’s like having sex while having your period. The only way anal sex wouldn’t be unhealthy is if the person getting the “boom boom” fasts and makes sure there’s no stinky poop inside the anus. Otherwise the one doing the “boom boom” will get his penis in contact with the other’s stinky popo. Yuck. A penise covered in popo! That’s not nice. I don’t know about you but to me anal sex just doesn’t seem right. Plus the girls I know who do anal all tell me it’s pretty painfull. I hope my points are good enough. I don’t have any more really.

    Anyways NC, I do absolutely agree with your rule.

    “Perhaps the rule ought to be: put it where you like, so long as the person you’re doing it with consents and wants it there”

    To each his own!

  31. Julaybib on August 28th, 2006 7:54 am

    First, it aint just Muslims that do this kind of thing:

    http://abcnews.go.com/2020/WomensHealth/story?id=123701&page=1

    …and vaginal surgery is now on the increase among middle class non-Muslims in Europe and the USA.

    Wasalaam

    TMA

  32. The Raccoon on August 28th, 2006 8:57 am

    NC - couldn’t have put it better meself :)
    And about people enjoying anal sex - many do. I know a fair number of men and women who take it up the arse and enjoy it greatly. There are plenty of nerves in the anus and rectum which are more than capable of producing a pleasurable response to stimuli. For men, the prostate gland is located near the rectal wall, and it responds with pleasure to tactile stimuli. For women, there are the shared nerves between vagina and rectum.

    Drima - I guess you’ve never seen any German “scheisse” movies, eh? :)

  33. Anonymous on August 28th, 2006 9:48 am

    Look up the statistics on CNN, Brooklyn.

  34. Omar Barsawad on August 28th, 2006 9:50 am

    Drima - I realized long ago, that there are two subjects that whenever mentioned would create an explosion of responses: one of which is homosexuality; the other I prefer not to mention here, as we most certainly will have another bout of heated responses!

    I have gone through this many times, and many a time, I have been accused of being all kinds of things simply because I do not agree with homosexuality! I can never hate a person because of one’s sexual orientation; but as I said - I whole heartedly, and I believe most of Mankind too, find homosexuality or sodomy - totally against nature and procreation!

    Yes, we are animals too - but completetly different from other animals; and, we can not just go about rationalisisng our sexual deviations by pointing to other animals’ beahavior, however close we are to them! Fellatio is not in any way as sensitive a subject as sodomy; that’s why we don’t have fellatio movements and rights! And no one who is civilised would, accept something as painful and deforming as FGM! Even most of those who practise FGM know it is wrong, but has simply been imposed upon them by traditions and customs!

    Just as e.e says: nature intended our sexual beahavior to be in a certain way; that’s why we have male and female! For/to me: homosexuality, even if done with consent, is a sexual deviation and I would not consider it in any way normal - just as I would consider pedophilia (even if the child consents); incest (even between consenting siblings); or beastiality (even if the animal is in no way distressed) - abnormal! And most important of all: homosexulity is against procreation!

  35. Anonymous on August 28th, 2006 10:57 am

    I think I’m the only female to reply to this post. I’m married and my husband and I both enjoy anal sex. I’m not trying to save my virginity.
    Yes, on occassion he does get a little popo on his penis, but hey it’s worth it.
    As Raccoon stated, there are many nerve endings there so it is quite pleasurable. Plus, according to my husband, it is tighter than the vigina.
    So to all you stuffy men on this blog, forgot animals, should haves, should be, etc. just give it a try, you will probably like it.

  36. Anonymous on August 28th, 2006 11:17 am

    Okay boys, I’ve noticed that most bloggers are young, male, and flexible. Check out this book, it will make you a star with the women.

    She Comes First: The Thinking Man’s Guide to Pleasuring a Woman

    Female poster from above

  37. programmer craig on August 28th, 2006 11:18 am

    Proud Muslim,

    (In the U.S today there are 6 million woman to 1 million men.)

    Is that Islamic statitsics or what? :P

  38. Nominally Challenged on August 28th, 2006 11:37 am

    Hey hey, Omar! I’m not sure if that reference was to me, but I didn’t accuse you of anything. You’re more than entitled to your views.

    You said “For/to me: homosexuality, even if done with consent, is a sexual deviation and I would not consider it in any way normal” and that’s the entire point. I do consider it normal, and you don’t. My point was, for any given definition of normal, something will either deviate from it or it won’t. My definition of normal includes homosexuality.

    By the way, if oral sex is a matter of consensus, then why did Drima’s friends have to have a debate about whether it is permitted in Islam or not? And (though I hate relying on television to state points) why was a whole episode of “The Sopranos” devoted to the apparent (though who knew?) taboo topic of cunnilingus amongst Italian Americans? Apparently because there are also taboos there in certain cultures.

    All I’m saying is, it ain’t so clear cut, and although the response that “it doesn’t seem right to be” might be adequate, ask yourselves whether that is really a sufficient answer.

    And to paraphrase our Anonymous married woman - don’t knock it till you’ve tried it ;)

  39. Qatar Cat on August 28th, 2006 12:04 pm

    Yeah I would like to know where these numbers came up from, too ;-) Is that supposed to mean that women outnumber men 6 to 1 in the USA? I beg to differ. Such stunning difference in gender numbers is only present in certain Middle Eastern states which are totally dependant on imported labour.

  40. Finnpundit on August 28th, 2006 4:22 pm

    The anus: Is it a one way or 2 ways highway?

    Oh boy, Drima, you sure know how to pick the topics.

    I agree with the posters who hold that it’s always consensual, as long as adults are involved. Keep morality, government, and religion out of the bedroom, with one exception: children must be protected, because they cannot consent as adults.

  41. Tsedek on August 28th, 2006 7:32 pm

    I am a woman, I don’t think anal sex is normal, I don’t think homosexuality is normal, I don’t think everything should be done because we’re “animals”. If we would be animals would men kill the children of his wife if she would have them from a former marriage like lions do? Why is it only in sex humans have to be compared with animals? That doesn’t make sense. I just see myself walking the streets as female cats do when they’re “having that time” *_* Could anybody imagine me, a woman, howling, miauwing out to any man that passes me by? *_* NO! I’m not an animal, I’m a human being. I got brains and they’re meant to be used. Darn, you guys are like “every hole is meant to be filled” *_*

    Iechsssss

    Tse.

  42. Twosret on August 28th, 2006 8:45 pm

    May I ask why we don’t feel the same way for men?! First post on Drima and what a topic.

  43. Drima on August 28th, 2006 9:41 pm

    Tsedek, I know what you mean and you’re so right.

    Looking at this discussion, it’s easy to tell why the opinions differ. It’s simple really…

    Darwinism VS Creationism

    Atheists VS Believers in God

    That’s the root cause of disagreement here and in order to agree, it looks like we’re gonna have to strike the roots.

    I believe God exists and that we’re not like other animals. We have a conscience and we have the gift of choice. We’re not mere wild animals reacting to stimuli as atheists would like to say. We are human and we are the product of an Intelligent design. We have a soul and we have feelings.

    The anus is meant to be a one way highway. Whether you decide to experiment with it for a 2 ways highway is something else.

    Twosret, welcome to the Sudanese Thinker. I hope you enjoy your stay. You raise an interesting point. I’ve read about male organizations in the US who are against male circumcision on the grounds that it reduces the pleasure men can get later out of sex. The say by circumsizing the penis some nerves are cut away and thus the potential for pleasure is reduced. Maybe the do have a point BUT… It has been scientifically proven that male circumcision is healthy and that female circumcision is not. Plus males are not circumsized with the intent of reducing their potential pleasure but women are subjected to it for those specific reasons and I believe that’s just oppressive. Women shouldn’t be subjected to FGM. It’s barbaric and it’s not done for so called “health” reasons but for other retarded so called “preventive” reasons.

    That’s why it’s not the same when done to men.

  44. Twosret on August 28th, 2006 9:53 pm

    I’m absolutely shocked because I never heard of Sudanese circum before, first time I heard was only two days ago on another blog and reading about it made me dizzy.

    I know many doctors here in the US that will refuse to do male circum. and they do believe very much that it does reduce sexual pleasure.

    I’m not comparing. Thanks for your welcome note and remind me to make you some fesikh with peanut butter and tomatos :)

  45. Drima on August 28th, 2006 10:16 pm

    Twosret, LOL at fesikh! I don’t eat it much. I’ve never been a fan of fesikh but I do certainly love Kushari so you can make me some kushari instead.

  46. Twosret on August 29th, 2006 6:07 am

    Drima,

    I learned this dish from a Sudanese friend that I haven’t been in touch for a long time. I couldn’t get over how kind Sudanese people are.

    Kochari sure :)

  47. The Raccoon on August 29th, 2006 6:11 am

    Drima - yes, religion vs atheism is pretty much the core of it. Or rather, absolute forced morality vs subjective personal morality.

    Male circumcision is not reducing the pleasure from sex. Foreskin is, in fact, irrelevant to sexual intercourse. I’m yet to meet a man who doesn’t enjoy sex or enjoys sex less because he’s circumcised.

    And about creationism vs evolution… uhm… is this actually an issue? I mean, do people actually believe the Earth is a few thousand years old, despite all the overwhelming evidence to the contrary?

  48. Aimster on August 29th, 2006 9:49 am

    Actually Drima, I think it is more due to differences in morality than religion v atheism.
    Morality is basically a set of common beliefs or values that represent acceptable behaviour in a particular society.
    So moral values in different societies would naturally differ greatly. It’s not what religion you adhere to or whether you have a religion at all, but what behaviour society or you yourself deem to be acceptable.
    FGM might be “acceptable” in certain societies, but not in others. Just as homosexuality/abortion/oral sex/ etc is/is not.
    What is one man’s food may be another man’s poison.
    It’s a matter of opinion really isn’t it?
    perspective.

  49. Anonymous on August 29th, 2006 11:04 am

    Raccoon this site is for you regarding the soul, http://www.harunyahya.com/matter6.php
    You should read the other articles on the site.

  50. The Raccoon on August 29th, 2006 11:38 am

    Anonymous - thank you for yet another Dawa attempt. As usual, the arguments presented on that site are a mix of logical fallacies and demagoguery. It’s not really worth the while (it’s too bloody long, boring and repetitious), but I could go over it argument by argument and smash it to little pieces of illogical propaganda. Nice pictures, though: they sure know how to appeal to emotion through atmosphere. All they’re missing is “natural” music and a faint scent of incense.

  51. halalhippie on August 29th, 2006 3:05 pm

    “It has been scientifically proven that male circumcision is healthy”
    oh yeah ?

    /grumpy mode on

    IMNSHO, genital mutilation of a child - male or female - is a hideous crime. Not only do you take away a part of a body part, you also take away the person’s choice - it can’t really be undone.

    If you’re adult, and believe it pleases God, I won’t stop you from doing whatever to your body. But a child….

    Circumcision of children is sick, and doing it in the name of religion is downright blasphemy
    /grumpy mode off

    Is it just me ? Castration complex or whatever. I get sick from even reading about it.

    respect to the raccoon: it takes a lot if faith to be a atheist :-)

  52. Anonymous on August 29th, 2006 7:35 pm

    Halalhippie, it has been proven healthy, also it’s able to prevent the spread of AIDS, this was recently discovered in a study within South Africa.
    “Circumcision of children is sick, and doing it in the name of religion is downright blasphemy”
    It’s in the name of health, and it’s been practiced by the ancient Egyptians, so it’s not a completely religious thing, in most religions its required because it’s HEALTHY and it promotes cleansiness.

  53. Omar Basawad on August 29th, 2006 10:48 pm

    Harun Yahya, just like Ahmad Deedat before him, and those Ulamas at the Islamic Research - cause those who do not see the logic and truth in Islam, much distress and wishful thinking! Many have dared and worked hard, at ‘tearing’ or ’smashing’ Islam in to shreds! But always fail! Islam is too whole; too logic for them to do so!

    Just to add on what ‘anonymous’ said on the benefits of circumsicion in fighting HIV/AIDS - the benefits and advantages of circumcision have been medically proven!

    Visit: for more info on the benefits of cicumcision.

  54. programmer craig on August 29th, 2006 11:28 pm

    Actually, Twosret, studies show quite the opposite re: Male Circumcision. The sexual experience for circumcized males seems to be slightly better than for uncircumcized males. Also, it seems to reduce the likelihood of the problem of premature ejaculation, for some reason I’m not really clear on. But whatever differences there are on physical sensation are very small. Men, either circumcized or un-circumcized, have no problems whatsoever with lack of intense sensations during sex :) To claim otherwise is a complete fiction, and I’m not really clear on why anybody would do so.

    And as Sudanese Thinker has pointed out, it is not disputed that circumcision reduces health risks for bothe the male and the female ina sexual relationship pretty dramatically.

    Bottom line - there is an upiside. And there isn’t a downside.

    No idea about these doctoirs you are referring to. Circumcision is common enough in the US to be considered the norm. Are they trying to make some kind of political point? I wouldn’t much want to visit a doctor who played politics with my health.

  55. The Raccoon on August 29th, 2006 11:29 pm

    Hippie - awww, thanks, mate… but I am not an Atheist. I am a devout Discordian, and it is a holy religious duty for me to spread doubt and promote confusion. Therefore, I am religiously obliged to be an Atheist (yes, I have just contradicted myself a number of times) :)
    Anonymous - first of all, circumcision is not a requirement of most religions. Second, religions don’t require things because of any particular… reasonable… reason - religions require things of belivers because their deity of choice demands it. Simple, yes?

    Omar - religions are based on faith, which is inimical to logic. Therefore, a logical religion is an oxymoron. Islam as as illogical as they go - the primitive and convoluted arbitrary laws and obligations serve no discernable purpose. You could claim that they serve a divine purpose, but that is not logic - that is faith.

    Moreover, the Koran has more self-contradictions than a guy with 8 personalities (3 of which are female and one a Martian) on LSD. And as for truth in Islam… I won’t even get into it… although… just a tiny taste which should appeal to you: Sunni or Shi’a truth? Wahabi or Alawite? The truths of Muhammad’s time in Mecca or Medina?

    Please don’t put yourself as an easy target for ridicule… I find such occasions difficult to resist.

    Thank you.

    Kind regards,

    The Commander-in-Chief of the Rabid Raccoonish Commandos (RRC), Chosen of Eris (she never clarified chosen for what, exactly).

  56. The Raccoon on August 29th, 2006 11:32 pm

    PS

    Omar and any other religious Muslim - I am not, of course, trying to insult you or your religion. I am just being a Raccoon. And what can you expect of a creature that happily munches on garbage? :)

  57. halalhippie on August 30th, 2006 1:49 pm

    Ok, “scientifically proven”, huh ?
    from Omar Basawad’s blog:
    “Preliminary data [….] suggested that circumcision could confer a protective effect of about 60 per cent. [–] possibility […] eventually […] adopted as a preventative measure.” 5 maybe’s in one sentence.

    Scientifically proven ? If it’s a fact , that it’s healthy, how come all men in the West, where “we” believe in science are not all circumcised ?

    And what does a baby boy - not sexually active - need protection from AIDS for ?
    I’ll say it again, if you’re adult, do as you please, of your own choice. But let the child grow up to decide for himself.

    And this is not about “tearing or smashing” Islam, but about chosing for oneself.

  58. programmer craig on August 31st, 2006 12:37 am

    halalhippie, if “you” believed in science as much as you claim, you’d know that it has been scientifically proven to be healthier to be circumcized than un-circumcized, and I haven’t seen any bserious dispute of the issue since masters & johnson realeased the first major study on it some 50 years ago! Which is longer than I’ve been alive! And not just for HIV/AIDS (which didn’t even exist when Masters & Johnson did the study) but for a host of sexually tranbsmitted disease and various other ailments that aren’t related to sex.

    I’m really not understanding what all the debate on thie issue of male circumcision is all about. But I will agree with you that it is a choice, for most people. Or, rather, for most parents. I don’t know why on earth you’d want to force adult men to undergo that particular procedure as a “choice” though! Justa guess, but I’m thinking it’s probably a major trauma for an adult :)
    I really don’t see what the issue is. Most guys here in the US are circumcized and I’ve never once in my life heard a guy say “Geee, I really wish I had my foreskin back!!” you know what I mean?

    This is a tempest in a teapot. For people who view it as a religious requirement to circumcize baby boys, they can do that. For everyone else, they can choose one way or the other, of their own free will. What’s the problem?

    It seems like it’s your proposed solution that would remove choice.

  59. halalhippie on August 31st, 2006 12:00 pm

    craig; I don’t claim to believe in science, I merely point out that a religious custom can be justified by scientific arguments. Of course Jews and Muslims will defend the practice. On the bright side, I got you Jews and Muslims agreeing on something :-)
    I apologise for stirring the waters: I guess I’m just too appalled by the thought of knives and children’s genitails to be rational about it.

    Many times I have been explaining/defending Western “immoral” behaviour to Muslims: I guess it’s only fair that this time I’m the one who needs explaining.

    Just to sum it up: we agree that FGM is bad bad bad ? right ?
    and MGM (?) is litterally no big deal (xept to this uncut Halalhippie) ?

    Peace to y’all

  60. programmer craig on August 31st, 2006 2:03 pm

    On the bright side, I got you Jews and Muslims agreeing on something :-)

    I’m an anglo Christian :)
    I don’t know the stats, I’m just going by personal observations, but I lived in 6 different states and on both coasts of the United States when I was a kid and I saw a lot of guys in the locker room of dozens of different ethnicities and I’m guessing about 90% of all American males are ciircumcized. And most of that 90% is Christians.

    I realize it’s different in EUrope. I don’t really know why, though. The religious foundations for the practice of circumcision go back to Moses and are certainly not exclusive to Islam or Judaism. I believe the reason for circumcision being so common in the US is the health iussues, though. Maybe the perception is different in Europe.

    In any case, yes I do agree that female circumcision is abhorrent. It severely impairs the sexual function of women. And theer is absolutely no benefit to the practice.

  61. detamble on October 16th, 2007 10:13 am

    1. FGM is disgustingly horrific, actually no, there is no word to describe it.

    2. I love my clitoris.

    3. Anal sex, whatever, if you like it go for it, and everyone else quit whining about it.

    4. I don’t think children should ever be circumcised, male or female. If they want to change their body then they can decide that when they’re an adult. It’s like getting a tatoo.

    5. Apparently male circumcision is healthier because it’s cleaner, I say take a shower and learn some basic hygiene!

    6. Urine? You’re worried about urine? It’s the girls who should be worried about urine, not the boys. It’s the boys who only got one front hole, girls have two one for sex and one for pee. I can’t believe you don’t know that, go and get an anatomy book already!!

    7. I would never sleep with a circumcised man, I think it looks weird. I like the foreskin!

  62. Islam and Sexuality: “The Perfumed Garden” and Our Present Reality : The Sudanese Thinker on January 29th, 2008 10:40 am

    […] Now that last part definitely stands out. Why and how were they divided? (The topic of anal sex surely instigated a good debate in this previous post of mine). Alrighty, anyways, moving on… one more: The question of the […]

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