Sudanese Opinion On Mid-East Crisis

Here is a really great discussion about the Mid-East crisis. It’s from a Sudanese forum. It’s quite representative of the opinion on the Sudanese street. Check it out below and read it ALL! My favourite is the last comment by Ferfer.

Was’nt that just the cherry ontop of everything.. Saudi Arabia ‘Blaming’ Lebanon, as if smacking a disobedient child, and shaking a finger hissing ‘ I told you so!!’. What can you expect from a state that is a ( Censored ) to the U.S. (as all Gulf States)… The Middle East is an embarassment, huffing and puffing in their useless Arab League, demanding the destruction of ‘The Zionist Entity’ but when shit hit the fan…. they sit and twiddle their thumbs.

Yup,that’s what we Arabs excel at: blaming,criticizing & philosophizing behind closed doors.Ha,Israel mustve been planning this for long n was waiting for a pretext(abductions in this case) to start a war in the name of ” Defense Against Terrorists”

You know,I feel starngely detached from it all. Truth is I don’t really relate in terms of conflicts with Arab nations,just as they don’t relate to ours. Which is sad really. But hey,we have our own problems.

Heck,Im just happy someone took a shot at Israel (…) or should I advocate the cowardice & silence of the Arabs n the West’s(US & Israel in particular) ongoing imperialism & dominance in order to attain peace of mind cuz messin with the bigger fish is hell on earth?

FOX News is sickly managed by Jews and republicans, same views [all I keep hearing, 8 Israeli soldiers down, 2 abducted]; they got what they deserve. How many Lebanese civilians are dead due to bombing?

Arabs countries and especially Lebanon never gave a damn about Sudan when the civil war was revolving, we had millions of people died in the civil war, probably more than what the Palestine’s have had throughout their prolonged war with Israeli. From my point of view, Sudanese people have unjustified sympathy toward Arabs, I just wanted to remained people that Lebanon stood strongly against the application of Sudan to join the Arabian union and their prime minister said bluntly that Sudanese are not Arabs and therefore shouldn’t be a member in the Arabian union. So why do care about people who never care about us. To be honest, I don’t care neither about Palestine nor Lebanon, further more I wish that Israel will manage to wipe out those Islamic terrorists such as Hamas & Jihad and more important Hizb Alah. But on the other hand, killing civilians is totally unacceptable, Israelis should direct their attacks toward Hamas & Hizib allah bases.

Ferfer,you do have a point and with all due respect to Lebanon, I am not a fan of the Lebanese ppl either.

(Quotes Ferfer first) You know what, I could care less about Lebanon or Lebanese. Like I said,I feel detached. But.. This is another indicator of where the world is heading. Geo-politics. It’s not about Hizbullah,or Hamas or terrorists. I know folks detained in prisons on cahrges of terrorism right now , who have never touched a Quran in their lives. It’s about land,religion,oil and troubelsome regions. So while I don’t think we should chip in,I do think we should sleep with one eye open. Sudan is on the list. Not beacuse of the ‘Islamic’ goverment. But beacuse of our location,resources and again location. It’s the gateway to and from the Arab world and ‘Black’ Africa.

Its not so much about sudanese, lebanese or tibetens.. its a humanitarian concern.

7,we are definitely on the “Most Wanted” list.I agree with you but,heck,this is colonialism all over again the only country I have respect for in the Arab/Muslim world albeit its fundamentalism & radicalism is Iran for sticking to its nuclear program n not succumbing to the West’s pressure.

Ferfer, how is Hamas a terrorist organization??? Because they are the only line of defense for Palestine against the Zionists? How is Israel not a terrorist nation?? HUH?

to me, Hamas is a terrosit group because its managing to hurt innocent civilians in israel, even though people might not be a big fan of israel but the Israeli people are still humanbeings, and some innocent israelis are being hurt in the process, Israel’s goverment (not the people) to me are also terrosists because they are also hurting innocent civilians.

Ill tell why I tend to label Hamas as a terrorist group, first of all Hamas has always been barrier to the peace process, they don’t attack the Israeli Military bases, instead they bomb civilians in the market, killing innocent people. Furthermore, whenever the Palestinian government and the Israeli government make a pact to ceasefire, Hamas comes to spoil everything and violate treaties. Anyone who kills civilians should be named a terrorist, including Israel, Hamas & Jihad, there is absolutely no difference, Israel is ruled by Jewish fundamentalists who seek to expand their state, and Hamas & Jihad are basically Islamic monsters. The only losers are Civilians, I personally hold Hizb Allah responsible of what is going on in Lebanon, it was totally irresponsible act to abduct the two soldiers, now all the innocent people are suffering while Hizib Allah and its fighters are hiding them selves. It’s always the innocent people who pay the cost, Islamic & Jewish fundamentalists are fighting and calling for holy way and each party claims to be the army of God.

Ferfer, excellent point.Nevertheless, I disagree that what is happening in Lebanon is solely the responsibility of Hizbullah.Frankly,Israel’s reaction to the abductions was/is extreme.Abductions are not uncommon in the world and the way Israel handled the whole matter is uncalled for.According to Al Jazeera channel’s statistics,there are approximately 500,000 Arab prisoners in Israeli prisons who have been convicted without a trial.

Like Miss. D said, this ‘invasion’ of Lebanon has been pre-planned, Isreal is trying everything to Get the U.S. to attack Syria and Iran, and with the way this predicament is unfolding… it’s most probable they’ll get their wish.

I totally agree that what is going on in Lebanon isn’t entirely Hizab Allh fault, and I also agree that Israeli are overreacting and apparently they have been looking for an excuse to carry out atrocities, and Hizab Allah foolishly enough has gave them what they have been looking for. So it is Hizib Allah fault in the first place, what Hizb Allah has done led the whole area into merciless war which its only victims would neither be Hizb Allah fighters nor the Israeli soldiers, it will only shed the blood of civilians. Hizb Allah has done is completely irresponsible provided that Israel had been in a state of peace with Lebanon. It is true that many Arabs are kept in the Israeli detentions without being charged but do you know that many more Arabs (probably more than those who are detained in Israel) are kept likewise in their own countries and without being charged, only because they have expressed their opposition to the governments of the Arab worlds!! People vent their anger on Israel and protest against USA but they remain silent when they see their government persecute its political opponents and oppress their fellow citizens, they remain silent when they see corruption in every public institute. (Drima: clap clap) Read the history and extract lessons, read about Martin Luther King & Ghandi, those people stood for their rights and struggled against oppression, racism and occupation using peaceful means and finally they have achieved what they sought for. Violence breed violence my dear, peaceful struggle is the way of people who have a genuine cause. Do you know what pisses me off? It is us, the Sudaneses, what we got to do with all this for god sake!! We have many internal problems which should make us occupied by thinking of how to solve them, people are dying every minute in Darfur, we have The Lord Resistance army wandering in our South and a potential rebellion in the east of Sudan. Have all our problems gone away? Are we too relaxed to pay our sympathy for Arabs? Please someone must answer these questions because Sudanese are driving me crazy.

(source)

Incase you’re wondering Ferfer is a secular Muslim Sudanese and so is Dinoz. My opinion is similar to that of Ferfer’s even though I don’t really consider myself to be secular. I still have mixed feelings about secularism. I think cultural sensitivity should be taken into account. Regarding the point about the Lebanese, it’s true. There’s a great belief amongst the Sudanese that the Lebanese are the most racist people in the Arab world. That’s a generalization off course. However I have defintely met my fair share of racist and stuck up Lebanese and it’s all due to my dark skin. Yay to “Arab nationalism”! Even we northern Sudanese can’t agree amongst ourselves if we are Arabs or Africans. Some are Arab oriented and others African oriented. The truth is we’re both.

16 Responses to “Sudanese Opinion On Mid-East Crisis”

1. Andrew Brehm on July 28th, 2006 6:32 am

   “FOX News is sickly managed by Jews and republicans, same views [all I keep hearing, 8 Israeli soldiers down, 2 abducted]; they got what they deserve. How many Lebanese civilians are dead due to bombing?”

   That guy is apparently watching a different FOX. Everybody in the west knows about the Lebanese victims. But almost nobody knows anything about Israeli victims. They also don’t know that Israel has been shot at for several years. For all people know the war started two weeks ago because FOX and others only started reporting once Israel started shooting back.

   “Israel’s goverment (not the people) to me are also terrosists because they are also hurting innocent civilians.”

   I assume that guy is imply badly informed and doesn’t know that the terrorists simply hide among (or as) civilians.

   “Israel is ruled by Jewish fundamentalists who seek to expand their state,”

   He must have falled for propaganda again, because the Israeli government are hardly “Jewish fundamentalists” and land for peace doesn’t sound very expansionist to me.

   How so many Arabs can make themselves believe that a tiny middle eastern state that constantly wins wars and always gives back land it conquered in exchange for peace is seeking “to expand their state” is a mystery to me. Israel is too small and gives back too much land to be “expansionist”. It’s that simple.

   I don’t know what a “Jewish fundamentalist” is as the author of the quoted defines the character, but Israel’s secular government could hardly qualify. Perhaps somebody can explain?

   What I really think is that Ferfer (I believe was his name) is throughly impressed by what heard about Israel and its history and is desperately looking for reasons not to change his mind about the situation. He has already come to dislike Hamas and the other terrorists. But he is not sure that he wants to like Israel; hence the “Jewish fundamentalist” and “expansionism” urban legends are used as the last line of defence. As long as Israel is evil, the world hasn’t changed too much, I assume.

   But the simple truth is that Israel is the only place in the middle east where homosexuality is legal, where women and men have equal rights, where evolution is taught in school, and where significant scientific research is common in the universities and companies. If that is “Jewish fundamentalism”, the Jews can be proud of their thoroughly modern religion, I suppose.

   And another simple truth is that Israel won every war, whenever it was attacked, that Israel could, according to international law KEEP all the land it took in these wars, back decided to give it back in exchange for peace. If that expansionism, then what is the word for attacking a country and keeping the land taken?

   Land Israel took since 1949:

   Sinai (from Egypt): given back in 1979 in exchange for peace
   Gaza (from Egypt): granted autonomy in 1994 and given to Palestinian Arabs in 2005*
   Judaea and Samaria (from Jordan): granted autonomy in 1994**
   East-Jerusalem (from Jordan): annexed
   Golan (from Syria): annexed
   Southern Lebanon (from Lebanon): given back in 2000 in exchange for cease-fire***

   *Gaza has since then been used to launch regular attacks on Israel. Israel thus invaded again in 2006.

   **Minus some settlements including re-vitalised community in Hevron.

   ***Cease-fire broken by Lebanese militia under the eyes of UN observers immediately. Israel thus invaded again in 2006.

   So I assume the “expansionism” is the settlements, East-Jerusalem, and Golan? Is that it? How expansionist!

   Define “expansionism”.

2. Tsedek on July 28th, 2006 9:28 am

   ~~~There’s a great belief amongst the Sudanese that the Lebanese are the most racist people in the Arab world. That’s a generalization off course. However I have defintely met my fair share of racist and stuck up Lebanese and it’s all due to my dark skin.~~~

   ————-

   Don’t they know that “black is beautiful”? Hmmm….

   Tse.

3. Anonymous on July 28th, 2006 11:19 am

   600 lebanese to 51 Israelis, am I missing something, cause I know those two numbers don’t even come close to equaling each other.

4. Drewcatt on July 28th, 2006 5:50 pm

   What Brehm said . . .

   600 lebanese to 51 Israelis

   Unless I’m missing something, Israel isn’t trying to kill Lebanese civilians. In fact, they’ve gone out of there way to litter areas subject to attack with leaflets and other paraphenelia with the distinct intent of getting civilians out.

5. Drima on July 28th, 2006 6:49 pm

   “He must have falled for propaganda again, because the Israeli government are hardly “Jewish fundamentalists” and land for peace doesn’t sound very expansionist to me.”

   Andrew you’re right about that. You convinced me. Israel isn’t ruled by Jewish fundamentals and it isn’t seeking to expand itself.

   I must admit that in the past days since this started I was too angry to see some of the things clearly. I still dislike Israel’s campaign and I think Israel should get rid of the source ie. Iran or Syria. However I will now admit that Israel is doing its best to avoid civilian casualties. Hezbollah guyz don’t drop leaflets or make phone calls before they bomb a place.

6. Leauki on July 28th, 2006 6:49 pm

   “600 lebanese to 51 Israelis, am I missing something, cause I know those two numbers don’t even come close to equaling each other.”

   And they are supposed to?

7. Leauki on July 28th, 2006 6:54 pm

   “I still dislike Israel’s campaign”

   So do I. If it was up to me, the whole thing would never have started (and Hizbullah would not have sent rockets into Israel for five years). And if all the people who now protest against Israel’s response had protested against Hizbullah attacking Israel five years ago, perhaps neither side would have the problems it has now.

   But that was obviously not the protesters goal, was it?

   “and I think Israel should get rid of the source ie. Iran or Syria.”

   Yes, my hawkish side says so too. But attacking Iran would be impossible and attacking Syria would be a violation of international law.

8. Finnpundit on July 28th, 2006 10:33 pm

   Drima, could you post a link to the site where you got this from? Was it in Arabic originally? If so, it’s useful to link even though you yourself might be translating it into English.

   In online debate, linking to your source material is usually done as a matter of courtesy, and also as a proof that one is not fabricating some material (though, of course, it would be easy to fabricate a fake website).

   I would like to link to your site as an example of the kinds of lively debate that is going on in the Sudanese part of the world, but if you don’t have the requisite backup link to a source, then I’m afraid it possibly will fail to pass muster: people will want to know where the material comes from, and will dismiss the evidence if there’s no backup.

9. Drima on July 29th, 2006 5:29 am

   Sorry finnpundit. I didn’t put the link as I thought it’s not that important. Sometimes I get a little lazy to but you’re right links are essential as they prove credibility and provide a source…

   Here you go

   http://ww.shamarat.net/db/viewtopic.php?t=9291053

10. Drima on July 29th, 2006 6:08 am

    By the way I’ll be adding new links on my sidebar soon. I’ll include blogs belonging to the usual commenters too and they’ll be classified by geograhicap location and/or overall political opinion.

11. Anonymous on July 29th, 2006 7:28 am

    Drima, you have been sucked into the secularist idealism of consumerism and materalism. And you had so much potential. Tsk, tsk, tsk.

12. Drima on July 29th, 2006 8:28 am

    “Drima, you have been sucked into the secularist idealism of consumerism and materalism.”

    Hey we all have guilty pleasures. I happen to love the show Friends and enjoy Danish cheese big time okay. Capitalists want to help the world and make a positive difference despite the popular belief that they only care about getting rich. Bill Gates or Warren Buffet anyone??

    “And you had so much potential”

    HAD?! Maybe “have” is a better word. Gee come on cut me some slack anonymous…

    Why gotta be so mean LOL =p

    Humans don’t change. They only refine their philosophies as time passes by and I certainly am human. I’ve still got a long life ahead of me Insha Allah (ie. if God wills).

13. Um Haleema on July 30th, 2006 5:39 pm

    Nothing like a lovely trip to the Good Ole USA to see the beauty and rationality of a secular world. Isn’t that right Drima? Ready to come back and stay with the rational people?

14. Andrew Brehm on July 31st, 2006 7:19 am

    “By the way I’ll be adding new links on my sidebar soon. I’ll include blogs belonging to the usual commenters too and they’ll be classified by geograhicap location and/or overall political opinion.”

    Hehe!

    I am not updating it lately, but maybe you didn’t know it:

    http://citizenleauki.joeuser.com/

    Have fun!

15. Anonymous on July 31st, 2006 10:30 pm

    “Incase you’re wondering Ferfer is a secular Muslim Sudanese and so is Dinoz”

    Drima, so what makes the rest of us??? closed-minded extremists cuz we are not sympathisizing with the Jews!!!!

    Miss D

16. Drima on August 1st, 2006 7:44 pm

    No Miss D, defintely not… Most people who analyze the situations without the religious factor always end up with such views. I’ve scanned the blogosphere and I discovered that all people with similar opinions are secular… It’s kind of strange but makes sense given that all seculars dislike Islamic groups… I don’t think all Islamic groups are bad and no I don’t support Israel in its bloody war now…

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