Al Jazeera dated 14th June
The military said on Wednesday that old Israeli ordnance could have killed the eight Palestinians last Friday, after its previous denial of responsibility was received with scepticism by the United Nations and elsewhere.
JERUSALEM (CNN) — The explosion on a Gaza beach that killed seven people last Friday was caused by explosives planted there by Palestinian militants, not artillery fire from an Israeli navy gunboat, Israeli military sources said Tuesday.
It is important to note that the CNN article contained this information towards the end.
But Human Rights Watch said its investigation of the incident came up with opposite conclusions in almost every case.
In other words the Human Rights Watch is accusing the Israelis and putting the responsibility of the tragedy on them. Talk about mind twisting and distorted news. You can defintely tell me that Al Jazeera could be biased but why would the Human Rights Watch be?! You see, these are exactly the typical cases where I just end up getting so pissed off. To tell you the truth, I don’t give a damn if it was Hamas or Israel because at the end of the day nothing is going to change the depressing fact that the poor girl’s family is gone. It’s not like anything is going to bring them back to her now.
Everyone is saying different things just on this one tiny freaking incident, so you can surely imagine all the “accurate records” that exist over the past 50 years on this conflict. It’s not like I care who started it or who did what or when. I’m not really bothered to read up through the piles and piles of so called “accurate records” surrounding this conflict and every single incident in the past 50 years. Is it really going to matter? Who’s to say who is right or wrong? The most critical factor in the “siding” in this conflict is the emotional factor. Yes, that’s it! Your emotions will determine where you stand or don’t and NOT so called “facts”. I’m on the freaking fence and I don’t care to side with anyone. My stance is simple. Have fun and continue killing each other or learn to share Jerusalem. Arrgh… The frustration is taking over on this one. I’m contemplating hitting the Backspace key and erasing this whole “bably” paragraph but you know what…? I think I’m gonna leave it… Sigh!
SudaneseThinker
SudaneseThinker
{ 17 comments… read them below or add one }
You’re assuming that people generally care about the truth. I can’t speak for everyone obviously, but in my own experience people find truth in ways that support their own core beleifs. ‘
You a rabid anti-Israel zealot, then it is obvious that those damn Zionist pigs deliberately shelled that poor family.
You a rabid anti-Palestinian zealot, the it is obvious that those damn war-mongering Palestinian terrorist blew up their own people.
That the reality means nothing is a crying shame. But that’s what happens when politics, pride, and ideology inevitably become mixed up in anything. Things like truth, and rightness get tossed aside (not all the time mind you), and all you’re left with is hate, frustration, denial, mistrust, and a burning desire to give up on the world.
I trust the IDF’s investigations. I don’t trust Hamas. I can’t put it in a more simple way.
Tse.
“You can defintely tell me that Al Jazeera could be biased but why would the Human Rights Watch be?”
Because any group can name itself “Human Rights Watch” and then pursue whatever agenda it has anyway?
“I trust the IDF’s investigations. I don’t trust Hamas. I can’t put it in a more simple way.”
I trust that if Hamas’ version was right, Palestinian television wouldn’t have had a reason to show a mixture of pictures of an Israeli coastguard ship and the beach.
“I’m not really bothered to read up through the piles and piles of so called “accurate records” surrounding this conflict and every single incident in the past 50 years.”
If Jews killed Arabs when it wasn’t necessary for self-defence it must be because many Jews hate Arabs.
And if Arabs killed Jews when it wasn’t necessary for self-defence it must be because many Arabs hate Jews.
To find out the truth you only have to stand in the main street of Tel Aviv dressed like a Muslim, with a Palestinian flag and see how people react; and then stand in the main street of Damascus, Ramallah, any Arab city dressed like a Jew, with an Israeli flag and see how THEY react.
You will find out who hates whom.
I have in fact offered a bet to several pro-Palestinian (they always exclude Jews when they say “Palestinian”) who claimed that Jews simply hate Arabs while the Arab side is open for peace.
For the bet I would wear a T-Shirt with a Palestinian flag in Tel-Aviv for a day, while my pro-Palestinian opponent would wear a T-shirt with an Israeli flag in an Arab city the same day.
The survivor would be owed ten dollars.
Some of these claims can be tested easily.
But oddly enough I never hear back from them once I propose the bet.
They have very little faith in their beliefs.
Once again, as ‘ drewcatt ‘ said : everyone is starting to defend or attack according to previous thoughts, not for the sake of seeking the truth.
I do not trust HAmas and I do not trust IDF.
Yet its possible that an international investigation finds the ‘truth’, but untill them many other ‘incidents’ would be of more importance !
nice day
“I do not trust Hamas and I do not trust IDF.”
Compare their initial statements and how many details of their processes they give.
When it comes to these types of “blury” incidents I’m afraid the siding depends mostly on the emotional factor. I can’t and won’t make up my mind yet. It’s simply too early. The story has already been marketed in such a way pointing the blame towards Israel. Now, I mentioned on a previous post that even if it was Israel then it was defintely an accident. Some seriously stupid people think Israel wants to kill civilians. Now why on earth would Israel want to do that? It’s bad PR and non productive to the peace process. If there is a “peace process” actually happening now. Just check Darfur. I’ve already explained how it’s not a genocide and how that is a big misconception. However who will give a damn what I say when most of the world already accepts it as a genocide since oooooo that’s what media says. Yeah sure the media is right about everything… As I said… I have a habit of letting such blurry incidents slide as bygones and as such I can’t get caught up on who did it and why it happened etc… They’re already dead… Both sides has committed atrocities before… Does it really matter who did it this time… After all it’s one family and not hundreds of thousands of people like in Darfur… So which is the bigger tragedy we should focus on??
“To find out the truth you only have to stand in the main street of Tel Aviv dressed like a Muslim, with a Palestinian flag and see how people react; and then stand in the main street of Damascus, Ramallah, any Arab city dressed like a Jew, with an Israeli flag and see how THEY react.
You will find out who hates whom.”
I’m inclined to agree with you Andrew. It’s no wonder you haven’t had any takers.
One thing though, though you may be right on the mark, it only takes one person to start violence. Most Israeli’s would probably be inclined to leave a Palestinian alone, but ‘most’ is not all. As we all know all too well, it only takes one person, or a small group of persons to perpetuate violence.
“it only takes one person, or a small group of persons to perpetuate violence.”
Yup, true and then the rest of the crowd ends up joining most of the time too.
Andrew, I don’t think the reaction will tell the truth of who was responsible for this incident or responsile for being the “bad guy” in this long bloody conflict… Again your basing your assumptions more on emotional factors. I strongly believe the beach incident was an accident and not done on purpose… Both sides are not free from flaws and accidents can happen from the two…
“Andrew, I don’t think the reaction will tell the truth of who was responsible for this incident or responsible for being the “bad guy” in this long bloody conflict…”
I think it will. If you had two children and the cat is missing, and you asked them who opened the door. And one of them told you that it was the other, while the other says that it could have been him but he isn’t sure, what would you conclude?
“Again your basing your assumptions more on emotional factors.”
The entire accusation is based on emotional factors.
“I strongly believe the beach incident was an accident and not done on purpose…”
Of course it was an accident. But the question remains, why would the IDF shell a beach or why would Hamas mine a beach.
There is no reason for the IDF to shell a beach at that moment. It could only result in a PR disaster if they had.
But Hamas have reason to believe that preparing the beach for an Israeli attack might be a good idea.
“Both sides are not free from flaws and accidents can happen from the two…”
A land mine on a beach is an accident? That the family was the victim was an accident. The act of planting a mine on a beach is not an accident.
“I’m inclined to agree with you Andrew. It’s no wonder you haven’t had any takers.”
I think I found the ultimate argument and proof.
It’s the scientific method: try it out. And I like dramatic bets.
“One thing though, though you may be right on the mark, it only takes one person to start violence. Most Israeli’s would probably be inclined to leave a Palestinian alone, but ‘most’ is not all. As we all know all too well, it only takes one person, or a small group of persons to perpetuate violence.”
I completely trust that other Israelis would immediately stop the attacker and protect me. A million Arabs live in Israel. Do you hear of many attacks on them?
Other people on the internet are saying the CNN article is complete BS. Be careful, there is a lot of bad information floating around right now.
“Do you hear of many attacks on them?”
Yes, http://tinyurl.com/okzr8
That’s not the most unbiased article ever written, but it is illustrative of some of the problems I mentioned earlier. I’ll try later to find some older pieces that are on-point which I’ve read before.
Andrew you seem convinced it was a landmine… While I have no idea how a crater of a shell looks like since unlike Tommy I wasn’t in the army or a former soldier… I still say the cause of the incident is still uknown and that it is too early to start pointing fingers. Plus who knows which article is wrong and which is not…
“The entire accusation is based on emotional factors.”
It wasn’t. But maybe what you’re trying to say is that Arabs are hot tempered unlike Israelis. I haven’t known or met any Israeli so I wouldn’t know how hot tempered they are but I obviously do realize Arabs are hot tempered. However remember that even the Israeli side has extremists too okay… Extremist factors exist on both sides… It is worth mentioning that I do know Palestinians who’ve spent time in Israel and tell me Israelis are generally very nice friendly people and that there are many Palestinians who live side by side with their Israeli friends and hate all the crap going on. Even my ex-girlfriend who’s Turkish spent many years in Israel and told me the same thing. They say the media is busy displaying the negative factors from both sides. I would defintely believe that. All you hear on the media about Islam is terrorism. People like me, BP, SM and so many other moderate Muslims get no attention whatsoever on the media… So who knows Andrew maybe you’re right about Israelis being the more peacefull and maybe you’re not. Have you been to Israel or known Israelis?? Do you know any moderate Palestinians?
Drima -
I tend to believe the IDF much more than the Hamas. One of the reasons is the reprecussions for lying - a Hamas spokesman that was caught lying, falsifying evidence etc will just continue his life as normal.
If IDF is caught lying/falsifying, however, they will probably be fired in disgrace along with anyone else involved in a cover-up. And in Israel, secrets are VERY difficult to keep (those pesky journalists and their godsdamned freedom of speech :).
Another reason is that PA has been repeatedly caught lying and falsisying evidence, often in most blatant ways.
Check out http://www.sandmonkey.org/2006/06/14/some-things-will-never-change/ for a wee bit of a discussion regarding peaceful Israelis/Palestinians
Peace out!
Racoon said: “”[If IDF is caught lying/falsifying, however, they will probably be fired in disgrace along with anyone else involved in a cover-up.]“”
I would agree with you if that statement was even remotely close to having any truth. What happened when Israel bombed the refugee camp in Lebanon? Wasn’t Sharon cleared of any wrong doing and later became President? Instead of face a war crimes court? Israel continues to bluntly attack Palestinians and will continue to do so without shame or honor!
Anonymous:
I presume you’re speaking of the Sabra and Shatila incident?
In this case, Sharon has been found indirectly responsible and fired along with the Chief of Staff of IDF.
See http://www.palestinefacts.org/pf_1967to1991_sabra_shatila.php
If you are really interested, do some reseach about Kahane Commision (the body especially created in order to investigate Sabra and Shatila).
Facts, please. Facts and facts only.
Thank you.
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